Swiss pocket watch

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by vandd, Oct 21, 2008.

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  1. vandd

    vandd Registered User

    Jan 26, 2008
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    just got anouther inwhich i will post a pic or two, but it is swiss made and is marked on the movementwestern special eythra quality specially adjusted highly jeweled 172654. i will post a picture later when i have the time, i bought this watch due to it cought my attention.
     
  2. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    It sounds like a "Swiss Fake". We'll know better when the pictures are posted. One way to tell is if the balance simulates a temperature compensated balance. On a true compensated balance, the rim of the balance wheel has two cuts, all the way through the rim, one near each of the two arms that support the rim. Sometimes, these cuts are faked by the use of a slot that goes half way through the rim. A real temperature compensated balance has the inside of the rim made of a different color material than the outside of the rim. A faked compensated balance is made entirely of the same material. Most “Swiss Fakes” don’t bother doing this and the balances don’t have any cuts at all. These are not to be confused with post-1930 quality watches whose anti-magnetic, temperature immune balances are not cut.
     
  3. vandd

    vandd Registered User

    Jan 26, 2008
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    ok here are 2 pictures
     

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  4. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Vandd i have one with almost the identical dial, and yours too look like a Swiss fake.
    The screws on my balance wheel are not even screws that can not be turned.
    There are many Swiss fakes out there, some harder to tell apart from the originals.
     
  5. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    vandd4621:

    As you gain experience, you'll get to see that the overall appearance doesn't "look right" for a high grade watch. The general look, although splashy, lacks fine appearance of a carefully finished watch. As mentioned above, and as pointed out by Kevin, the balance is made to look like a compensated balance, but it is of one material and lacks the cuts near the balance arms.

    The very phrases "Extra Quality" and "Highly Jewelled" are typical of "Swiss Fakes." "Specially Adjusted" is also, but it has been used on some medium and high grade American-made watches. The lettering style is also an indicator, but it takes a more practiced eye to detect this without a side-by-sie comparison with the real thing. Even then, some Swiss-built high grade watches (such as railroad standard watches) have a very similar lettering style.

    The gaudy dial is also an indication of an inexpensive watch, although not necessarily a Swiss Fake (not all inexpensive Swiss watches are Swiss Fakes, just those made up to look like, given names to sound like, American-made watches).

    On the plus side, some people consider "Swiss Fakes" to be collectable and they can be interesting, especially when the examples are in very fine overall condition. Also, when in good condition, and properly serviced, they ought to be able to keep time within a few minutes per day.
     
  6. pwrudy

    pwrudy Registered User
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    #6 pwrudy, Oct 25, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2008
    Even though I am not an explicit collector of swiss fakes, I love them: Those clumsy lines 'highly jeweled' (often spelled 'jewelled'), the machine engravings, the fake jewel settings and those Railroad romantic allusions (trains, cars, words referring to the RR) add to their character. I like your watch - completely swiss - quite a lot. I wonder why they did not even pretend to imitate a RR dial with this one. It obviously should appeal to the customer as a 'precision watch of the highest quality'.
    It would be lovely to see the dial plate, if there are any jewels at all (except of the lower balance jewel, of course).
    How is they case marked? Is it a standard 18 size american GF case?
    Thanks for sharing this watch with us!
    ..by the way: on the plate, next to the balance cock, you find the word 'swiss' engraved in small script!
     
  7. vandd

    vandd Registered User

    Jan 26, 2008
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    i notice that (swiss) mark and the case is in a wadsworth case, i will work on taking the face off later this week to share
     
  8. pwrudy

    pwrudy Registered User
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    Oh yes, please do so, I would really appreciate to see the underdial side of this watch! Great fun!
     
  9. vandd

    vandd Registered User

    Jan 26, 2008
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    ok, on the back of the dial it reads
    c bapbezat-juvet fleurier suisse
     

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  10. pwrudy

    pwrudy Registered User
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    Wow! This was really worth the effort! Thanks ever so much!
    Now, you have the manufacturer (at least of the dial): Babezat-Juvet. This company is not listed in Pritchard, so it might just be the dial manufacturer, but nevertheless an interesting bit of information.

    The best thing is the underdial view: do you see any lower jeweled bearings? Even a lower balance jewel? Look at the crude steelwork for the winding and setting mechanism! They tried to make it as cheap as possible to lower the production costs and, of course, the retail price.
    Thanks again for sharing the pics.
    Rudolf
     
  11. beta21

    beta21 Registered User

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    #11 beta21, Oct 29, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2008
    I think it should read "C. Barbezat-Juvet" . Barbezat is family name usually associated with the firm "le Phare". But I believe this is another firm with the same name and that it refers to the dial maker only.

    There is a little bridge under the top plate called the "potance" which carries the lower balance jewel, this can't be seen on the under dial picture.

    Peter
     
  12. pwrudy

    pwrudy Registered User
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    Sorry for my mistakes, Peter.

    Yes, of course, I mistyped 'Barbezat' and omitted the 'C' which still does not directly lead to more information on a specific company name 'C. Barbezat-Juvet' which may serve as a manufacturer of movement or/and dial.
    The 'potance' was a good hint - of course, it is a full plate!
    Still a lovely piece with 'character'.
     

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