Suspension spring for S Haller Simonswald 400 day clock

[Ajay]

Hi All
Please help me to identify the correct suspension wire for my 400 day clock.Back plate photo is attached and the details are:

1) Height and Width of backplate : 8.5 cm X 4.1 cm

2) Height of the clock : 23.5 cm from the base of the pillar to the top of the crown.

3) Markings : S HALLER SIMONSWALD, No (0) Jewells,Unadjusted,Germany.

Thank you

Ajay

 

[shutterbug]

I don't find that exact back plate in my book, but all of the thin profile Haller's seem to use a .003" spring. I think you'd be safe starting there. If you have any part of the old spring (looks like you do) and a micrometer, you could measure it for verification.

 

[Ajay]

Thank you so much for your reply.The wire was in broken condition when I received the clock.Since it was broken from the upper block I fixed it back so there was a 1 cm shortage of length and the clock is running very very fast.the existing wire is little thicker than .0023" size. I am not sure whether the clock was keeping time with the existing wire though the seller said so. Not only that the lower block is attached ( fused ) to the wire ( Not like the usual type with screws on it ).So if I remove the existing wire I have to look for a lower block as the old block cannot be removed.

 

[shutterbug]

Thank you so much for your reply.The wire was in broken condition when I received the clock.Since it was broken from the upper block I fixed it back so there was a 1 cm shortage of length and the clock is running very very fast.the existing wire is little thicker than .0023" size. I am not sure whether the clock was keeping time with the existing wire though the seller said so. Not only that the lower block is attached ( fused ) to the wire ( Not like the usual type with screws on it ).So if I remove the existing wire I have to look for a lower block as the old block cannot be removed.

That's interesting. One centimeter is a lot of change, and will cause the clock to run fast. The thinner spring should cause it to run slow.
I'd expect roughly 5 to 6 minutes per hour increase with a short spring, and still feel fairly confident that a .003" is what you need (if the pendulum is original).

 

[Ajay]

That's interesting. One centimeter is a lot of change, and will cause the clock to run fast. The thinner spring should cause it to run slow.
I'd expect roughly 5 to 6 minutes per hour increase with a short spring, and still feel fairly confident that a .003" is what you need (if the pendulum is original).

I do no know whether pendulum is original or not.so please have a look at the photo of the pendulum and let me know whether I should use a 0.003 " suspension wire.
Thank you
Ajay

 

[ivancooke]

Hi Ajay,
This clock is the same one you have. It is plate number 1520 in the repair guide.
It runs on an 0.003 suspension and keeps good time.
I think you should be safe enough to try it.
Regards,
Ivan.

 

[ivancooke]

I should have also mentioned the manufacture date was 1960.

 

[Ajay]

Hi Ajay,
This clock is the same one you have. It is plate number 1520 in the repair guide.
It runs on an 0.003 suspension and keeps good time.
I think you should be safe enough to try it.
Regards,
Ivan.

Thank you so much Mr.Ivan.Since you have the same type clock let me clarify few doubts
1) Does it have a plastic base with brass colored coating ?
2) Does it have a plastic dial with brass color and marking ,Seth thomas on dial ?
3) Does it have a plastic hook where you attach the lower block of the suspension wire ?

My clock has all the above qualities ( Bad ! ).
Regards
Ajay

 

[ivancooke]

Yes Ajay,
My clock has all these features, they probably used plastic to cut down on manufacturing costs.
I think you will find the underside of the base is plastic, but the top is either brass or metal plated with brass.
There should also be a clear plastic suspension guard.
Hope this has been of help.
Regards,
Ivan.

 

[Ajay]

Yes Ajay,
My clock has all these features, they probably used plastic to cut down on manufacturing costs.
I think you will find the underside of the base is plastic, but the top is either brass or metal plated with brass.
There should also be a clear plastic suspension guard.
Hope this has been of help.
Regards,
Ivan.

Hi Ivan,
Thank you so much for your reply.

Regards
Ajay

 

[shutterbug]

Looks like Ivan has all of the bases covered Hope it works out for you!
Keep us posted!

 

[Ajay]

Looks like Ivan has all of the bases covered Hope it works out for you!
Keep us posted!

Sure,thank you.

Ajay

 

[Dennymac1119]

Where can I get a .003" suspension spring for a S. Haller Simonswald 400 day clock?

 

[shutterbug]

Where can I get a .003" suspension spring for a S. Haller Simonswald 400 day clock?

You'll have to buy a pack, and probably pay minimum order fee, so read the fine print before ordering. Here's a link. #10482

 

[ana1961m]

this is a S. Haller movement plate #1520AAA use .oo3(.076mm) complete unit is 42 or 42A depending on the fork shape. you can order thru timesavers in scottsdale, az. 85267 u.s.a. 480-483-3711 international orders hope this helps

 

[John Hubby]

this is a S. Haller movement plate #1520AAA use .oo3(.076mm) complete unit is 42 or 42A depending on the fork shape. you can order thru timesavers in scottsdale, az. 85267 u.s.a. 480-483-3711 international orders hope this helps

Ana1961m, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and to the 400-Day Forum. For your info and for others reading, TimeSavers are OK if you are ordering ONLY the individual springs. If you are looking for a complete suspension unit, TimeSavers does NOT supply Horolovar suspension springs with their units. Unfortunately the results of using these have been poor at best.

Meadows & Passmore supply complete units using Horolovar springs, and they ship internationally. Search for "Anniversary Suspension Unit".

 

[SEL KUMS]

Hi DennyMac,
Please type out 220813583055 on EBAY search box and this will lead you to seller snoopyrb1 who has .003 suspension on sale

 

[harold bain]

Hi DennyMac,
Please type out 220813583055 on EBAY search box and this will lead you to seller snoopyrb1 who has .003 suspension on sale

Yes, but for twice the price Timesavers lists them for

 

[NECCnut]

I have bought from that seller before and was very happy. Last time I checked, the price included shipping, which is a fair deal. However, the springs CAN be gotten somewhat cheaper from other sources.

Yes, but for twice the price Timesavers lists them for

 

[LoisM]

So glad I found this forum. I have the same clock as being discussed in this thread. Can anyone tell me how long the suspension spring should be once the blocks are attached to a new spring? I really can't afford to buy the Horolovar Repair Guide . Besides, Shutterbug mentioned they couldn't find a reference to this particular clock in their guide (assuming it's the Horolovar Guide), so if that is the case, purchasing this guide would be a waste of money.

I purchased this clock brand new in 1975, and 2 yrs. later, my (then) 3 yr. old decided to find out how the clock ticked . Needless to say, the suspension spring was broken, and the clock has not functioned since. Over the years I have attempted to find a local repair shop with not much success, and just recently learned it was possible to repair it myself .

If anyone knows how long the suspension spring should be it would help a great deal. And I thank you for any help you can provide.

 

[shutterbug]

Welcome, Emanti! Your suspension should be 124mm from top of top block to bottom of the bottom one. .003" thick.

 

[LoisM]

Welcome, Emanti! Your suspension should be 124mm from top of top block to bottom of the bottom one. .003" thick.

Thank you so very much for the quick reply. I'm not good at metrics; however, using an online converter I'm to assume that is equal to 4.88". I can't wait to finally get this clock fixed and running again after all these years. I know it's not worth much; but the fact that it's key wind makes it valuable to me.

Again, thank you.

 

[John Hubby]

Imantei, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for posting your inquiry. The length you calculated is correct, but when you get the spring be sure to double check how high the pendulum is above the base before you cut it to length. The pendulum needs to clear the bottom of the base cup by about 1/8 inch.

Keep us posted of your progress, you may need some help in getting the beat set correctly after installing the new spring.

 

[LoisM]

I've taken the back plate off, and have now removed the mainspring barrel. I can't get the cover plate off the mainspring to expose the spring. How do I remove it? I've been tapping on the opposite side of the barrel but it just won't come loose. Am I suppose to tap on the key shaft? I'm using a rubber mallet. The first photo in thread #1 that Ajay uploaded shows a small hole on the cover; mine doesn't have such a hole. There is no room along the edge to even get something between the cover and the outer edge of the drum to even attempt a gentle prying.

 

[harold bain]

You have to hammer on the wind arbor with your rubber mallet, from behind. It may take some hard raps to get it off. I hold the barrel in my gloved hand, and whack it til the cap comes off.

 

[LoisM]

Thank you Harold. It worked. I wasn't sure if I should tap on the arbor for fear the spring would come flying out. As you mentioned, holding it in a gloved hand was the ticket. And thank you for such a quick response.

 

[shutterbug]

I hold the barrel in my gloved hand and whack it hard on a 2X4.

 

[Tony10Clocks]

Thank you so much Mr.Ivan.Since you have the same type clock let me clarify few doubts
1) Does it have a plastic base with brass colored coating ?
2) Does it have a plastic dial with brass color and marking ,Seth thomas on dial ?
3) Does it have a plastic hook where you attach the lower block of the suspension wire ?

My clock has all the above qualities ( Bad ! ).
Regards
Ajay

Hello. Just curious, Why would Seth Thomas be on a german 400 day clock
Tony

 

[harold bain]

Tony, in the latter stages of the history of Seth Thomas, they were reduced to being a sales agent for German made clocks. I have a Seth Thomas cuckoo clock, that is obviously a blackforest product.

 

[Tony10Clocks]

Thanks Harold
Tony

 

[tomi.petrovski]

Hi i have same S.Haller Simonswald clock and i need spring for that clock.... Tell me where can i order and is it expensive that? I was at one old clock store and he required me 100euro wtf .... Please help me

 

[Tinker Dwight]

You seem to be missing the suspension spring, top block, bottom block,
fork and screw at the top. The springs by them selves are not that expensive
but it also requires setting the beat once you have the spring.
I'd say the price was high but don't know the European suppliers or what
what it might cost there.
In the US, the parts would cost about $30 and just installing might cost an additional
$50. The price may have included cleaning and oiling. If so, it would not have been
that far out of line.
Tinker Dwight

 

[shutterbug]

I can't seem to ID the exact plate, but I'm pretty certain that it will require the Horolovar #42 or 42A unit (either one is fine). That will include all of the parts you need. Should be under $30.00 US. Be sure you get a genuine Horolovar, or the timing will be off. Check the supply houses in your country.

 

[LoisM]

The plate is the 1520AAA, the suspension spring unit is a #42 or #42A. I found the #42A fork to be a better fork which is the one that came with the clock. Also, even though the Horolovar Repair Guide recommends a .003" spring. My clock originally came with a plastic anchor that had cracked. I was able to find a clock with a brass anchor so I replaced the entire movement. I ended up having to use a .028". You could contact Chris Nimon at Horolovar to see if he ships international. You maybe able to get a unit from him, as well as the additional suspension springs. If you plan to repair yourself, recommend getting a few extra packs of replacements springs. They are fragile and if you bend in the wrong place you'll need to replace.

Good luck. My clock has been keeping near perfect time since April 2013.

 

[shutterbug]

The plate is the 1520AAA, the suspension spring unit is a #42 or #42A.

It doesn't really match the 1520AAA, and although it is very close to the 1520AA, it's not a perfect match. However, since the Haller style is consistent throughout, the 42 is a logical choice.

 

[Just-in-time]

Does anyone know if the suspension bracket on these S.Haller Simonswald clocks are adjustable to set the beat. Most of the suspension brackets I have seen seem to have a have a screw or device that can be tightened or loosened. This one looks like a rivet head and is pretty tight.
Does it just need a little encouragement? If not is this fixed saddle clock. and how does one set the beat?

 

[Just-in-time]

More research & less posting, and I have found the answer. It can be moved, it is just a bit difficult to do. Problem solved.

 

[Burkhard Rasch]

yes,it's a snug press fit,moving is sometimes a bit hard.
Burkhard

 

[Just-in-time]

Thank you Berkhard.

 

[jdoylend]

I have the same model being discussed in this thread and shown in the photos above by Ivan, and I have a basic question. Is this the same as the so-called “time bomb” Haller clock? Or is this model relatively safe?

thanks,

Jonathan

 

[KurtinSA]

Welcome to the message board, Jonathan! No this is not the "time bomb"...just a regular 400-day clock. I have a few like this...they are not the most robust built clock/movement but can be made to run.

As for setting the beat, you would end up turning the upper mount where the top block of the suspension spring is pinned. This mount is a friction fit to the saddle bracket. The best way to start setting the beat is to check where it currently is set. With the suspension and pendulum hung and not turning, use your fingers to rotate the pendulum one way or the other while watching through the inspection holes for a tooth to drop off the pallet...you should hear a small "tick". Stop turning the pendulum when this happens and carefully remove your fingers and let the pendulum rotate the opposite direction. You should watch the opposite pallet to see when a tooth falls off...making another "tick". The clock is in beat if the pendulum rotates on its own until the second tooth just barely falls off the pallet. If the tooth doesn't fall, or if the tooth falls and the pendulum continues to rotate quite a bit past the "tick", then the clock is not in beat. You would then turn the upper mount to return it to beat. My way of thinking which way to turn the mount is to consider which way the pendulum went too far. Say it was rotating counter clockwise (when looking down), then turn the upper mount clockwise. The upper mount adjustment is very sensitive, so make a change and repeat the swing test and see what kind of progress you're making.

Kurt

 

[jdoylend]

Thanks Kurt. That’s a relief.
Regarding setting the beat, I get how to check the beat - that’s how I know mine is a little off. But I am suffering from general ignorance of clock anatomy in terms of identifying the pieces you mention (I have loved all things clock-related since childhood, but am only now reaching a point in life where I can actually own older mechanical clocks so am just starting to learn the innards).

So, is the “suspension spring” the wire on which the pendulum is suspended and which twists back and forth during operation? What is the saddle bracket? Could you point me to a picture?

Thanks,

Jonathan

 

[KurtinSA]

I'll try to use one of the pictures posted above and put some notations on it. Hopefully this helps. Yes, the suspension spring is the very thin wire...it has a sandwich block at the top and one at the bottom that has a pin which hooks to the top of the pendulum. The top block is held in with a screw that goes through the sides of the upper mount and through the top block.

Kurt

 

[jdoylend]

Perfect. Thank you!

 

[Burkhard Rasch]

sorry to correct, but we should avoid confusion: the bracket is that shaped piece of brass attached to the back plate with two skrews.
this bracket carries the saddle (what You call the "upper mount" in your pic, Kurt) , the cylindrical little brass piece with the slot, in which the top block rides on a fixing skrew or pin.
The saddle is either friction fit or can be fixed with a skrew from the top can be turned to the left or right - and with it the whole suspension unit- in order to set the beat eqal

 

[KurtinSA]

Burkhard, you're right...should have checked the guide for some standard terms. But hopefully the poster at least saw what I was pointing to!

Kurt

 

[Antibet]

Welcome, Emanti! Your suspension should be 124mm from top of top block to bottom of the bottom one. .003" thick.

Hi there what is the distance between the bottom of the top block and the part that connects to the escape wheel pivots, is it 4mm?

 

[Willie X]

So glad I found this forum. I have the same clock as being discussed in this thread. Can anyone tell me how long the suspension spring should be once the blocks are attached to a new spring? I really can't afford to buy the Horolovar Repair Guide . Besides, Shutterbug mentioned they couldn't find a reference to this particular clock in their guide (assuming it's the Horolovar Guide), so if that is the case, purchasing this guide would be a waste of money.

I purchased this clock brand new in 1975, and 2 yrs. later, my (then) 3 yr. old decided to find out how the clock ticked . Needless to say, the suspension spring was broken, and the clock has not functioned since. Over the years I have attempted to find a local repair shop with not much success, and just recently learned it was possible to repair it myself .

If anyone knows how long the suspension spring should be it would help a great deal. And I thank you for any help you can provide.

 

[Willie X]

Drop a 1 mm thick disk/shim into the centering bowl, then get someone to hold the pendulum in place, resting on that disk. A steel ruler should give you the measurement you need (hole to hole).

This will get you close and the 1mm disc is on the shy side. This should make the length very close but most likely a bit long. It's easy to trim by another mm, if necessary.

I used to do this before I got my "book" about 40 years ago ... Willie X

 

[Tony3900]

That's interesting. One centimeter is a lot of change, and will cause the clock to run fast. The thinner spring should cause it to run slow.
I'd expect roughly 5 to 6 minutes per hour increase with a short spring, and still feel fairly confident that a .003" is what you need (if the pendulum is original).

shutterbug, I have the same clock and have adjusted the pendulum all the way to the minus side the clock is still running really fast, I am using a .003 spring also. any suggestions on how to slow the clock down. could I use a thinner spring? Thank you.