Suspension Spring for Andreas Huber 400day

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by Jeff Salmon, May 20, 2004.

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  1. Jeff Salmon

    Jeff Salmon Registered User
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    Apr 11, 2002
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    Hi everyone:

    A client has brought an early Andreas Huber 400 day clock, with a flat disc type pendulum, for repair. The suspension spring is incorrect. Does anyone have the correct strength for one of these. Approximately what are the dimensions? Whatever info I get can be used to get me started with the timing. I have the original top block, fork and bottom block. The suspension spring has been changed and I suspect that it is wrong, as the clock runs very slow.
     
  2. Jeff Salmon

    Jeff Salmon Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    651
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    Hi everyone:

    A client has brought an early Andreas Huber 400 day clock, with a flat disc type pendulum, for repair. The suspension spring is incorrect. Does anyone have the correct strength for one of these. Approximately what are the dimensions? Whatever info I get can be used to get me started with the timing. I have the original top block, fork and bottom block. The suspension spring has been changed and I suspect that it is wrong, as the clock runs very slow.
     
  3. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Sep 7, 2000
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    Hi Jeff,

    If you have a copy of The Horolovar 400-Day Clock Repair Guide you should be able to find the back plate of your clock listed there. The information for each plate includes the correct suspension spring strength.

    If you don't have the book please post a picture of the back plate here and we should be able to give you the correct spring. It would be interesting to see the plate either way.

    John Hubby, Secretary
    The International 400-Day Clock Chapter #168
     
  4. Jeff Salmon

    Jeff Salmon Registered User
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    Apr 11, 2002
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    John:

    I think that because this clock is so early, it is not in the book. Apparently, previous repairers have had trouble with this clock, because they could not get the suspension spring right. I have taken photos and as soon as I can figure out how to up-load them, I will do so.

    Jeff
     
  5. mrb

    mrb Guest

    if no info is available you can increase speed by shortening the spring or replacing with a thicker one
     
  6. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Sep 7, 2000
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    Hi Jeff,

    All you have to do is have the photos on your hard drive in JPEG format. Then post a reply here, click on the "paperclip" in the menu bar, and it will guide you to (1) browse on your hard drive to find the file, (2) name it for the board, and (3) click on "OK". That attaches the file to your message, and when you click on "Post Now" it will show up here as a clickable link.

    If you have any problems with that just send the pics to me by email at pastimes@juno.com and I will post them.

    John Hubby, Secretary
    The International 400-Day Clock Chapter #168
     
  7. Jeff Salmon

    Jeff Salmon Registered User
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    Apr 11, 2002
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    John:

    Here are the photos of the clock.
     
  8. Jeff Salmon

    Jeff Salmon Registered User
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    Apr 11, 2002
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    John:

    Here is the back plate of the Huber clock
     
  9. Jeff Salmon

    Jeff Salmon Registered User
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    Hi again:

    I realize that if I shorten or change the thickness of the spring, the timekeeping will change. What I hope to fine is a close beginning as it can be tedious to fiddle around.

    Jeff
     
  10. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Sep 7, 2000
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    Hi Jeff,

    Thanks for the photos. This is the second example I have seen of a clock with a Huber dial. The first was on display at the Syracuse Regional in August 2001, where we featured 400-Day clocks, and had different markings on the dial. I am posting a photos of the clock and the dial.

    This "exact" back plate is not shown in the Repair Guide, but there is one that is identical except for the markings and the pallet inspection holes. It is Plate 1471, shown as being made by Jahresuhren-Fabrik circa 1902, with the marking "Patent Angemeldet Patents Applied".

    This plate is shown to use the Horolovar 0.0040" thickness suspension spring, which I recommend that you try. I have used this strength spring successfully on many clocks that have the exact plate shown in the Repair Guide as well as many that have the same plate layout but with different or no markings.

    Now for some observations about who made what. One of the major problems in identifying clocks made between 1888 and 1902 is that most makers did not put anything on the back plates except perhaps a serial number. Also, it was reported in contemporary articles that some makers simply made exact copies of the Jahresuhren-Fabrik clock movements after the Jehlin patent was allowed to expire in late 1887. Huber Uhren evidently was one of those companies, and were reported to begin production in 1894. Thus, there are essentially identical clocks made in the 1888-1902 period that cannot be categorically identified as being of one or the other maker. Your clock is one of those. The fact that yours has a Huber dial certainly indicates it was most likely made by Huber, but that is not evident from the back plate.

    The pendulum on your clock is known to have been used as early as 1898 by Bowler & Burdick of Cleveland, Ohio, who assembled clocks using French cases and German movements. We believe they used both Huber and Jahresuhren-Fabrik movements from that point until they started using Hauck movements in 1904 and Kienzle movements as well in 1906. All versions were sold with this same pendulum as well as others they had made on purpose for their clocks.

    One comment I will make about your back plate, is that the inspection holes are very unlikely to be original and were most likely added by someone at a later time. The reason I point this out is that we have not found (yet) any evidence in the literature or by actual example of any maker using this until Kienzle patented it and applied it to their clocks in 1906, and your clock is earlier. There are reports in contemporary literature that clockmakers would add these to clocks that came through their shops and I have seen a number of examples that were obviously added later, some done very professionally and some not so well.

    After Kienzle patented the idea the next maker to use the idea was Gustav Becker starting in 1909. This may have been under license, but more likely because the type of patent used by Kienzle was a DRGM design patent valid for only three years and thus expiring in 1909. Surprisingly no other maker followed this example until Kundo started production in 1923, and then virtually all makers adopted the idea after WW2.

    Back to the original question, I do think the 0.0040" suspension spring should work.

    John Hubby, Secretary
    The International 400-Day Clock Chapter #168
     
  11. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Hi Jeff,

    Here is a photo of the dial, as you can see it is quite different from your clock.

    John Hubby, Secretary
    The International 400-Day Clock Chapter #168
     
  12. Jeff Salmon

    Jeff Salmon Registered User
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    Apr 11, 2002
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    John:

    Thanks for providing so much information regarding the Huber clock. The client's clock was purchased by her grandfather in Germany, about WWI, as he was there during that time. What is not real clear in the photograph, is the deep red velvet on the base. This is a replacement of the original velvet that was in pretty bad shape, and was restored by someone in Tennessee (thank you for a nice job, whowever you are). The dial on this clock appears similar to the other photo, with the exception of the lettering.

    Jeff
     
  13. bcarlstroem

    bcarlstroem Registered User
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    Jan 10, 2010
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    John, I was hoping to see the photos but I don't see the "clickable link." Am I missing something?
     
  14. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    A couple of things. You're responding to a thread that is nearly 15 years old. What John was providing was the steps to upload an image to the forum. Unfortunately, the forum software has gone through a change and his instructions aren't correct anymore. In the new software, the process to upload a picture starts with clicking the "From PC" box that is below the message box. From that point, it should be clear what to do in order to upload pictures from your computer.

    Kurt
     
  15. bcarlstroem

    bcarlstroem Registered User
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    Jan 10, 2010
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    Thanks Kurt. I'm working on a Huber Uhren that has been a real challenge. I came to the conclusion that the suspension configuration "may" not be correct but my Terwilliger doesn't show it. The plate number is 1247 in my edition. The forks are V shaped with the vertex pointing down which I assume is correct. I have moved the forks down some and it seems to be better, as of a few hours ago. I guess only "time will tell."
     
  16. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    I don't think the fork makes that much difference as long as it reaches out to the anchor pin and there is no binding of the fork with the anchor pin during escapement. A piece of paper should fit between the anchor and one of the tines when the pendulum is at rest. I have a Huber Uhren but plate 1251...it appears that the suspension spring thickness is 0.0037" for these clocks.

    My clock isn't working and is in a longish line waiting for its turn for overhaul. Hope yours continues to run!

    Kurt
     
  17. bcarlstroem

    bcarlstroem Registered User
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    Jan 10, 2010
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    Still going ...... Thanks for your input.
     

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