Sundial in pocket watch case late 19th century American

[musicguy]

I just bought this Sundial in a hunting Pocket Watch style case with original box.
I have seen many reproductions of these, but I've never
seen one like this one. It was manufactured under patents granted
in the United States March 4 1879, and February 9 1886.
It has a compass in the center of the dial.

This will be the first Timepiece I own that I don't have to wind
or have serviced ever.

******I would be curious if anyone else has one here. Or, if
anyone has more information on this one.********

I have permission from seller to use photos








Rob

 

[Nathan Moore]

Rob - Interesting find.

In case you have not tracked down the patent documentation yet:

US213009A - Improvement in sun-dials - Google Patents
US335647A - Sun-dial - Google Patents

 

[musicguy]

Thank you for responding to this thread TimeAntiquarian I thought
more people would find this interesting, I thought it was really cool.

I'm sure this was a novelty item when it was sold in the late 19th
century







Rob

 

[PatH]

Hi, Rob -

I also have one of these timepieces, as I am fascinated with unique and novelty "watches". When I first saw it, I was quite surprised to see that the label said "The New American Stem Winder and Setter Timepiece". Although at first glance, that is misleading, it is in fact a true statement.

The third and fourth pictures are a souvenir pocket watch sundial from the 1939 New York World Fair - not nearly as sophisticated as the earlier version. In fact, other than the back, it looks much like the Orphan Annie Miracle Compass Sun Watch that was offered as a premium the same year. I don't have one of the Orphan Annie watches, but a Google search of images will return many examples.

And, of course, there's always the trusty Ansonia Sunwatch in the fifth and sixth pictures.

Thanks for starting this thread. I wonder if there are other examples of pocket sundials that readers can share?

 

[musicguy]

Very nice PatH.

Rob

 

[Steven Thornberry]

And, of course, there's always the trusty Ansonia Sunwatch in the fifth and sixth pictures.

You forgot the instructions.


Here is the catalogue description from Tran Duy Ly's book on Ansonia clocks and watches.

 

[PatH]

Thanks, Steve! I did neglect to pull out and copy the instructions. Thanks for adding them. Mine are in the form of a booklet that says Patent Pending on the cover. Blank back with no ad for the alarm clocks. Perhaps an earlier version?

Pat

 

[Steven Thornberry]

Mine are in the form of a booklet that says Patent Pending on the cover. Blank back with no ad for the alarm clocks. Perhaps an earlier version?

Yours would seem to be dated between April 20, 1921, the date George Hollinwood's patent application was filed, and June 6, 1922, the date the patent was granted. So, yes, yours is probably an earlier version, not to mention that your Sunwatch is in much better shape than mine. The boy scouts must have done a job on it.
[pdf]491699[/pdf]

 

[PatH]

Thank you, Steve! I really hadn't looked at the dates or anything else other than to take the original pictures of the box and watch. I'll add the patent to my information on this piece.

I looked at quite a few and waited several years before acquiring this one. I'm trying to learn to be patient and wait for the nicer examples. It's sure hard when I keep telling myself, "But you may never see another one like this!"

 

[johnnypocket]

Thank you for responding to this thread TimeAntiquarian I thought
more people would find this interesting, I thought it was really cool.

I'm sure this was a novelty item when it was sold in the late 19th
century

View attachment 491622

View attachment 491624



Rob

I think thats cool Rob. Great grab. Definite conversation piece in a collection. Somehow I had a feeling Pat H. would have one, I wished I lived near Texas I bet she has a unique varied collection and I would love to check it out. Thanks for sharing.

 

[musicguy]

I wished I lived near Texas I bet she has a unique varied collection and I would love to check it out.

I agree.


Rob

 

[PW Collector]

[QUOTESteven Thornberry, post: ]the date George Hollinwood's patent application was filed, and June 6, 1922[/QUOTE]

Shown in the patent application, inside the lid is a chart with Latitudes / Equations.
Here is the metal chart that comes with the Ansonia Sun Watch.
Dave

 

[PatH]

Dave, looks like your instructions are yet another version with Ansonia added above Sunwatch in the center. Thanks for sharing the picture of the chart in the lid. Mine wasn't as clear as yours, so didn't include it.

Thanks!

 

[PatH]

I think thats cool Rob. Great grab. Definite conversation piece in a collection. Somehow I had a feeling Pat H. would have one, I wished I lived near Texas I bet she has a unique varied collection and I would love to check it out. Thanks for sharing.

I agree.


Rob

Would love to talk dollar watches if you're ever in the area. Maybe we could all go see Dave's collection, too!

Pat

 

[Steven Thornberry]

Shown in the patent application, inside the lid is a chart with Latitudes / Equations.
Here is the metal chart that comes with the Ansonia Sun Watch.

I also have the chart, without which the Sunwatch can't be used accurately.

 

[Jim Haney]

This is a Sunwatch made and sold through the Boy Scouts about 1923. These were made by Ansonia Watch Co.
It has the paperwork that folds up in the lid. The Lat/Long chart inside the lid is on a harder shiny surface.

Just lift the arm to the correct angle(depending on your location, I am closest to Atlanta on the cart) and align the compass to North and turn the watch to the compass north and the shadow will tell the tome

 

[musicguy]

Has anyone here used(told time from) any of these Sundial watches?


Rob

 

[miguel angel cladera]

Its so nice Rob!! to read the time well, you must orient it south, hence the compass on the dial

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Pocket watches and sundials have always gone together, I have a printing plate for making watch papers which have the equation of time on them so that you can correct your watch whenever you are passing a sundial. (about 1760)

 

[PatH]

Some older clocks included equation of time calculations, too, correct?

 

[novicetimekeeper]

yes, some longcase displayed the equation of time, and some had it on a sheet inside the case. You can obviously set your longcase by the sun but it presumably involves a runner or some other method, the watch is at least portable. Perhaps portable sundials were so you could set it up in a window near your clock!

 

[PatH]

Word of the day is gnomon. Anyone have a guess as to the meaning?

 

[Steven Thornberry]

Word of the day is gnomon. Anyone have a guess as to the meaning?

It's the pointer of the sundial. Ancient Greek = one who knows, an interpreter, and much else. Check Liddell and Scott.

 

[PatH]

Thanks for the correct definition, Steven! Just a tidbit to throw in when speaking to someone about sundials - or when looking a horological words beginning with G.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Pat,

How about another word relevant to sundials: 'analemma'?

Regards,

Graham

 

[PatH]

gmorse, I neglected to respond saying that I had to look up that one!

Today, I ran across an ended listing for an Ansonia Sunwatch made for the British market. The list of cities were in England and Ireland, and at the top of the instruction booklet is "Great Britain and the Irish Free State". The listing states that there were 5 versions - 2 for the US, 1 for British/Irish, 1 for Australia/New Zealand and 1 for Canadian market. The copyright date was 1922.

I just checked, and my list is different than PW Collector in post 12 Sundial in pocket watch case late 19th century American His starts with Atlanta and mine with Albany. I guess we have the 2 US versions covered.

 

[musicguy]

and mine with Albany, New York

That's the one I would use, thanks.


Rob

 

[PatH]

I would use Dallas, from Jim's and PW Collector's. I guess it would be Galveston on mine, however Galveston is several hours east of us.