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Sunday Hunting

musicguy

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So you like dog engravings on watchcases, do you Rob?
I happen to be the most famous of connoisseurs of dog etchings
don't tell my wife please ;) :cool::).



Rob
 

Ethan Lipsig

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Rick Hufnagel

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It's not as nice a

In the 1879 Elgin material list, there are three classes of material for the 10s.
Class 1 is the Frances Rubie and equivalent #
Class 2 is Lady Elgin and equivalent #
Class 3 is the rest of the 7&11 jewel

In the 1882 Elgin Material Catalog there are only two classes. Class 1 is still the Rubie, and Lady Elgin, Dexter St and Borden are class 2.

I have a lady Elgin (early 1870s) recently broken down. Looking at the balance staff, it really rang home about the class of material. The Lady Elgin balance staff was finely polished and had oil grooves. It was really something nice to discover. This is in contrast with a Gail Borden I've looked at in the past with a lower class of material and a very plain and ordinary balance staff.

If class 2 material for the Lady Elgin was this nicely finished... It makes me wonder what an original balance staff for a Rubie looked like! It must have been the most finely finished watch that Elgin produced at the time. In theory its obvious, but actually seeing the hidden differences in the various grades is very interesting.
 

musicguy

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I'll bet she already knows, Rob.
Sadly I'm sarcastic and I am a connoisseur of many things but
dogs are not one of them yet.

Carry on please lol


Rob
 

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Today I took out a Hamilton 941, no. 239836. Ledgers show the watch as being finished June of 1904 but not sold until May of 1905 to H.W. Wheeler & Co. of New York. I bought the watch back in 2013 and cased it in Wadsworth Referee 20yr. HC.
It's always surprising to me when looking through the hand written ledgers, to see the date the watch was finished and the sometimes very long period between until sold and all 100 units from this single series of movements weren't sold until almost a year later. I guess it must have to do with the factory's schedule for grades.


edited.jpg edited 3.jpg collage2.jpg



941 18s 239836 full dial a.jpg 941 18s 239836 mvmnt.JPG
 

Jerry Treiman

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For this particular Sunday I am wearing my Elgin 23-jewel grade 190. It is private-labeled on movement, dial and case for Mermod Jaccard & Co., St.Louis, MO. It was a presentation piece to its original owner in 1908.
8503014d.jpg 8503014f.jpg 8503014m2.jpg 8503014mdt.jpg

I bought this watch in June 1976 at the NAWCC National Convention in Anaheim, CA. It instantly became one of my favorites and was the watch I chose to wear for my wedding on August 1, 1976 -- 45 years ago, today. Here is a photo that our wedding photographer staged of my best man and groomsmen pointing to the watch, indicating that the time for the wedding ceremony was near. (Like most grooms of that era I had no say in our attire).
Aug1,1976_watch.jpg
 

Ethan Lipsig

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Beautiful watch, Jerry. Grade 190 and its OF counterpart, Grade 194, were the top of the Elgin line when they debuted.

1627837428927.png
 
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Paul Sullivan

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This morning I took out my only Hamilton 943. Serial no. 121580 which dates the watch to 1901.

The movement was finished late November 1901 and sold December 10 of the same year to Chicago jeweler, Knights and Co. The watch was bought back in October of 2016, and I re-cased the 943 in a nice Philadelphia 25yr., 14k GF, three hinged HC, in great condition.



PXL_20210801_153833419.jpg PXL_20210801_153917746.jpg


943_mvmnt_.JPG Dial_Face_.JPG


01 collage 2.jpg
 
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musicguy

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In my pocket today for Sunday hunting 16s B. W. Raymond
circa 1907 grade 341


20210808_084127.jpg

20210808_084248.jpg

20210619_154650.jpg




Rob
 

musicguy

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Off topic for a second....

I can't say exactly why but I wanted both of these grade named marked
variations of the 16s three finger bridge watches(both are from 1907).
The G M Wheeler(grade 337) and the B W Raymond(grade 341).

20210619_154650.jpg 20210601_181901.jpg



Rob
 

Rick Hufnagel

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What do you mean you don't know why? :p

They're beautiful! I had the open faced G.M. Wheeler which I regrettably sold a while back because it sat here for ages. Finally replaced it recently with a private label. It's hard not to like these bridge movements.
 
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This Sunday I took out a Waltham model 1892 Royal to Crescent St. conversion from about 1896.

The movement was purchased in an OF case as a "sidewinder" and was re-cased in an ornate Keystone W.C.Co.14k GF, 3 hinged (J. Boss grade), 25 yr case.
Both the front and back cover have the identical die engraved decoration with the only difference being the cartouche on the back cover has a small scene engraved in it and the front is left empty for the addition of owners initials. The serial number is repeated on all of the cases three covers.
I changed out the gold fleur-de-lis with a spade and whip set but found none of my many spare blued second hands fit, so I'll most like put the others back on.

PXL_20210808_233000097.jpg PXL_20210808_233033909.jpg


Royal-Cres. St. 7819049 SN Pos 3.jpg Riverside_conv_to_Cr_ST_collage.jpg


Rob,

Your G M Wheeler(grade 337) and the B W Raymond(grade 341) are great looking watches and one of my favorites, along with Illinios #FB models also.
 

Paul Sullivan

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Rick,

I think the model 1892 is about the best looking 18s watch made along with Elgin's 18s 214 in 1901, and some of Hamilton's early finely finished 18s watches and finally their most produced 18s watch the 21j, A5P, 940. I used a table made of each '92 grade runs and count to check any that might be scarce or rare.



ModelGradeSizeJewelsStyleEarliestLatestFirstLastRunsCount
1892Not delivered
17OF

70188767018890115
1892Not delivered
21OF

70185577018590134
1892Astronom1819OF

18028501190011003300










1892ATCo1815OF

141251262005750041285
1892ATCo1817OF4/1897Jun-027005011181370006332368
1892ATCo1817HC5/1897Oct-02700601118095600218040
1892ATCo1821HC3/1898Aug-037013021120204003480
1892ATCo1821OF

12577601125780001400
1892ATCo1817OFConverted to Crescent Street

?
1892AWCo1821OF

1009962610099700175










1892AWWCo1821OF

10082501100826001100










1892CPR1817OF

120205012201770082000
1892CPR1821OF

10042501100429001400
1892CPR1821HC

10082601100827001100










1892Crescent St1817HC

885660188570001400
1892Crescent St1819OF

954470118037500115400
1892Crescent St1819HC

120015011505120052186
1892Crescent St1821OF6/1897Oct-027007001200365007151232
1892Crescent St1821HC1/1897Oct-027010001126731003011100
1892Crescent St1821KW

7819001782000011000










1892CRTS1817OF

150055012201760071001










1892Export1817HC

8103001810400011000
1892Export1821OF

879400187941001100
1892Export1821HC

1051750110517520120










1892No 451817HC5/1896Aug-00701370170140001300
1892No 451817OF6/1896May-01701821170190007270
1892No 451821OF7/1897Jan-0070189717018980110










1892No 8451821HC

1257750117089500173800
1892No 8451821OF

12652001191270005151775










1892Non-Mag1815OF

9545201180240002300










1892Penn Spec1821OF

1304400113044050150
1892Penn Spec1821HC

155445071554451014










1892Premier1817HC

11059501110718002600
1892Premier1817OF

110598011152800032400










1892PSB1817HC

11073001190610502310300
1892PSB1817OF

15112701151135001800
1892PSB1817OF

12018501190611002825250










1892Railroader1817OFJan-00Feb-02748980195165604260










1892Riverside1817OF8/1897Apr-007005501748950061900
1892Riverside1817HC1/1897Apr-017006501748850052000










1892Roadmaster1817OF

10082701100828001100










1892Royal1817HC11/1897Mar-007537001767300032500
1892Royal1817OF12/1897Jan-027538001775300032000










1892Sidereal1819OF

1412510114125125125










1892Spec1819OFApr-00Sep-0074899017489940140
1892Special1815OF

7957501100998005450
1892Special1817OF

10030001141017002300
1892Special1819


893650189366001100
1892Special1819OF

10099501100996251125
1892Special1821OF

7902501125505502550










1892Vanguard1817HC4/1894Oct-006026001700601031030
1892Vanguard1817OF4/189312/18996027001701820741027
1892Vanguard1819HC

11033501140573004900
1892Vanguard1819OF

1152600119086000124490
1892Vanguard1821HC11/1894Jun-09700100117073101258131
1892Vanguard1821OF11/1894Oct-027002001200360004526628
1892Vanguard1823HC

7861001161513003010150
1892Vanguard1823OF

9508501201305006649874

57 Variants

























Totals:
327475
 

Clint Geller

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On a rare outing for me these days I took one of my American Grade Keywind 20's with me. 19 jewels, gold train, large diameter balance wheel, Fogg's cam regulator and safety pinion, Breguet overcoil hairspring, curb pin adjusting screw, superfine pitch hairspring, internal stopwork, three-line signature glass enamel dial, 18K AWCo hunting case.

Dial.JPG MOVEME~2.JPG DSC_0565.JPG Movt -5.JPG
 
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Clint Geller

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Rick,

I think the model 1892 is about the best looking 18s watch made along with Elgin's 18s 214 in 1901, and some of Hamilton's early finely finished 18s watches and finally their most produced 18s watch the 21j, A5P, 940. I used a table made of each '92 grade runs and count to check any that might be scarce or rare.



ModelGradeSizeJewelsStyleEarliestLatestFirstLastRunsCount
1892Not delivered
17OF

70188767018890115
1892Not delivered
21OF

70185577018590134
1892Astronom1819OF

18028501190011003300










1892ATCo1815OF

141251262005750041285
1892ATCo1817OF4/1897Jun-027005011181370006332368
1892ATCo1817HC5/1897Oct-02700601118095600218040
1892ATCo1821HC3/1898Aug-037013021120204003480
1892ATCo1821OF

12577601125780001400
1892ATCo1817OFConverted to Crescent Street

?
1892AWCo1821OF

1009962610099700175










1892AWWCo1821OF

10082501100826001100










1892CPR1817OF

120205012201770082000
1892CPR1821OF

10042501100429001400
1892CPR1821HC

10082601100827001100










1892Crescent St1817HC

885660188570001400
1892Crescent St1819OF

954470118037500115400
1892Crescent St1819HC

120015011505120052186
1892Crescent St1821OF6/1897Oct-027007001200365007151232
1892Crescent St1821HC1/1897Oct-027010001126731003011100
1892Crescent St1821KW

7819001782000011000










1892CRTS1817OF

150055012201760071001










1892Export1817HC

8103001810400011000
1892Export1821OF

879400187941001100
1892Export1821HC

1051750110517520120










1892No 451817HC5/1896Aug-00701370170140001300
1892No 451817OF6/1896May-01701821170190007270
1892No 451821OF7/1897Jan-0070189717018980110










1892No 8451821HC

1257750117089500173800
1892No 8451821OF

12652001191270005151775










1892Non-Mag1815OF

9545201180240002300










1892Penn Spec1821OF

1304400113044050150
1892Penn Spec1821HC

155445071554451014










1892Premier1817HC

11059501110718002600
1892Premier1817OF

110598011152800032400










1892PSB1817HC

11073001190610502310300
1892PSB1817OF

15112701151135001800
1892PSB1817OF

12018501190611002825250










1892Railroader1817OFJan-00Feb-02748980195165604260










1892Riverside1817OF8/1897Apr-007005501748950061900
1892Riverside1817HC1/1897Apr-017006501748850052000










1892Roadmaster1817OF

10082701100828001100










1892Royal1817HC11/1897Mar-007537001767300032500
1892Royal1817OF12/1897Jan-027538001775300032000










1892Sidereal1819OF

1412510114125125125










1892Spec1819OFApr-00Sep-0074899017489940140
1892Special1815OF

7957501100998005450
1892Special1817OF

10030001141017002300
1892Special1819


893650189366001100
1892Special1819OF

10099501100996251125
1892Special1821OF

7902501125505502550










1892Vanguard1817HC4/1894Oct-006026001700601031030
1892Vanguard1817OF4/189312/18996027001701820741027
1892Vanguard1819HC

11033501140573004900
1892Vanguard1819OF

1152600119086000124490
1892Vanguard1821HC11/1894Jun-09700100117073101258131
1892Vanguard1821OF11/1894Oct-027002001200360004526628
1892Vanguard1823HC

7861001161513003010150
1892Vanguard1823OF

9508501201305006649874

57 Variants

























Totals:
327475
I agree that the Waltham Model 1892 is an absolutely beautiful watch design. I sold a hunting case Penn Special Model 92 for another collector once. It was a gorgeous watch with gold-flashed damaskeening in a crisp heavy 14K hunting case. Except perhaps for a few hunting case Ball Howards, it was the most valuable railroad watch I ever held in my hands. I very much regret not photographing it before I passed it on.
 
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Ethan Lipsig

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Seeing Clint's gorgeous American Watch Co. grade keywind caused me to seek consolation by winding up my circa 1880 American Watch Co. grade Model 1872. It is in an 18k box hinge case inscribed M.H. Marbury, Detroit Mich. Marbury was Detroit's Commissioner of Public Works.

Besides being a very pretty watch, this watch is extra special in two respects. One is that it is one of 120 AWCO grade Model 1872s (100 hunters, 20 OF) marked Woerd's Pat. Compensating Balance, although like most of those 120 watches, it does not have the Woerd balance. The other special thing about this watch is that it was awarded a Class 1 certificate, with a 76 score, in Yale's Winchester Observatory's first rating of watches.

DSC01367.JPG DSC01368.JPG DSC01369.JPG DSC01372.JPG DSC01374.JPG DSC01375.JPG DSC01377.JPG DSC01384.JPG DSC01407.JPG
 

Clint Geller

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Seeing Clint's gorgeous American Watch Co. grade keywind caused me to seek consolation by winding up my circa 1880 American Watch Co. grade Model 1872. It is in an 18k box hinge case inscribed M.H. Marbury, Detroit Mich. Marbury was Detroit's Commissioner of Public Works.

Besides being a very pretty watch, this watch is extra special in two respects. One is that it is one of 120 AWCO grade Model 1872s (100 hunters, 20 OF) marked Woerd's Pat. Compensating Balance, although like most of those 120 watches, it does not have the Woerd balance. The other special thing about this watch is that it was awarded a Class 1 certificate, with a 76 score, in Yale's Winchester Observatory's first rating of watches.

View attachment 668659 View attachment 668660 View attachment 668661 View attachment 668662 View attachment 668664 View attachment 668666 View attachment 668667 View attachment 668668 View attachment 668669
I adore those winding wheels, Ethan. And that case is a knockout.
 

Ethan Lipsig

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On brief parole from the Citibank vault is this 23j Elgin Grade 190 Lord Elgin, circa 1905. It is in a 14k multicolored gold Solidarity case; #314,610,, inscribed From Father and Mother, on his 21[SUP]st[/SUP] Birthday, April 16, 1915. Grade 190 is one of my favorite Elgin grades. See post 77 for another of my Grade 190s and post 157 for one of Jerry Treiman's..

IMG_0800_edited.JPG Grade 190.jpg IMG_0799.JPG IMG_0801_edited.JPG IMG_0795_edited.JPG IMG_0794_edited.JPG IMG_0793.JPG IMG_0792_edited.JPG

I also have the 14k chain that came with with watch, to which is attached a 10k cigar cutter. I hope "Father and Mother" didn't include the cutter with their gift, thereby encouraging their son's malodorous puffing.
 
Last edited:

bruce linde

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what a great thread... this clock guy has enjoyed the tour so far! :)
 
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Clint Geller

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My "Sweet '72" hasn't seen the light of day in a while. This hunter has been posted before in other threads, just not this one.

View attachment 666707 View attachment 666708 View attachment 666709 View attachment 666710 View attachment 666711

Edit: I just now realized that this Short Tadpole regulator is missing something...I wonder if I bought it that way. That explains the sluggishness of the BW.
Kenny, I have seen that Old English "R" marking quite a bit on cases of Waltham watch movements. Do we know who that marking belongs to?
 

musicguy

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You guys convinced me to wear a hunter today. Here is one I have never worn before
and I would assume very few people have worn one of these too recently. I almost
wore one of those high jeweled ones but decided on this 13j watch.
Just wound her up just now and it's in my pocket.

Elgin Grade 90 16s 13j interchangeable
IMG_7294.jpg 1636309974554.png
1636310008994.png


Rob
 
Last edited:

PapaLouies

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Hi Mike,
Please see page 237 bottom-left.
Could it be that Waltham & Elgin used the invention without authorization?
Regards, P/L
 

musicguy

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P/L maybe you can also post a hunting case watch you are wearing. :)



Rob
 

Ethan Lipsig

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Out today for a spin, or at least a wind, is my circa 1889 L-size Howard, # 64,745. It is a mid-grade "horse" movement in a heavy 14k W.P. & H. case. It has a signed Moorhouse dial, alas a plain-jane one.

IMG_1249_edited.JPG IMG_1250_edited.JPG IMG_1252_edited.JPG IMG_3518.JPG IMG_3522.JPG IMG_3523_edited.JPG IMG_3524.JPG DSC08130.JPG IMG_1253_edited.JPG Moorhouse.jpg
 

musicguy

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In honor of my Mother, Grandmother, and Great-grandmother
I have been wearing this small one all weekend and into this Sunday Hunting thread.

family1m.jpg family1.jpg
family1n.jpg family1 (2).jpg


I have a photo from 1933 of all three of them (all strong women) but
decided it was too much information to post here.



Rob
 
Last edited:

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E. Howard & Co. by Clint Geller