Sunday Hunting

Joe Blossic

Registered User
Sep 6, 2015
127
541
93
Country

Joe Blossic

Registered User
Sep 6, 2015
127
541
93
Country
Today a recent addition while running errands. This is its maiden voyage to see how it runs.
Thanks to Henry Burgell's list on Ch.149 site, circa 1890 Hampden M2, Gr 43, 18S, 17J, lever set, one of estimated 3600.
PL Montgomery Ward in a Premier case with cool steam engine up on a stone bridge.
Happy hunting!
20200315_134155.png 20200315_133809.png 20200315_133656.png 20200315_133912.png
 

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
7,316
3,839
113
New York State
Country
Getting ready for Sunday Hunting.........


18s (Marked 925/1000 fine Leader by Keystone) case 1887 PL grade 33 Elgin
I think this will also be my daily carry for a while too.

oiuyonbbhpbvi876.jpg



Rob
 
Last edited:

Ethan Lipsig

NAWCC Gold Member
Jan 8, 2006
2,382
2,129
113
72
Pasadena
Country
Region
I stopped carrying my watches quite a few years ago, but I did just wind up this uncommon circa 1865 18k & enamel Browne & Spaulding-cased Model 1860 Appleton Tracy "Vibrator". Waltham used the vibrating hairspring, also known as the Fogg's Stud, on up to about 700 watches:
  • Perhaps up to 90 20-size AWCOs.
  • Perhaps up to 100 16-size AWCOs.
  • Perhaps up to 250 20-size Appleton Tracys.
  • Perhaps up to 250 16-size Appleton Tracys.
IMG_2609.JPG IMG_2606.JPG IMG_2610.JPG IMG_2612.JPG IMG_2604.JPG IMG_2602.JPG IMG_2601.JPG IMG_2600.JPG IMG_2598.JPG
 

Jerry Treiman

NAWCC Member
Golden Circle
Aug 25, 2000
6,663
2,578
113
Los Angeles, CA
Country
Region
I just put this one in my pocket today and realized "Hey, ... it's Sunday!"
3255585pocket.jpg
The movement is a Waltham 14-size 7-jewel Bond St. from 1887. The front cover is the same but with initials and date (1888) in the shield.
 

Kenny S.

NAWCC Member
Apr 12, 2020
204
314
63
56
Not far from South Park CO
Country
Region
Although I've posted this hunter in two other threads in recent months, I'm re-posting it here since it's Sunday and I have a question relating to this movement. The S.N. shows that it has 16 jewels. I saw another thread where Jerry Treiman had replied with a similar watch, but I can't find that thread. (I may PM him) At any rate, does anyone know why this would have 16 jewels? Does it have a capstone on the center wheel? A mistake in the ledgers?

Thanks and happy hunting!

Kenny

P.S. I promise I'll post something new next Sunday,
P1010814.JPG P1010813.JPG P1010812.JPG P1010811.JPG P1010810.JPG P1010809.JPG
 
Last edited:

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
7,316
3,839
113
New York State
Country
I am going to join in as I have one in my jeans coin pocket now.

Circa 1897 Waltham Riverside 6s 17J total production 3080 Pendant set Model 1890.


20210124_094018.jpg 20210124_093245.jpg



Rob
 

Ethan Lipsig

NAWCC Gold Member
Jan 8, 2006
2,382
2,129
113
72
Pasadena
Country
Region
I am cheating a bit, because I don't really carry my pocket watches any more, but I just wound up this 19-jewel Model 1888 American Watch Co. grade hunter. This watch was made around 1891. It is in a heavy 18k Waltham-signed case that weighs about 68 grams without the movement. The movement is #5,000,143. Model 1888 AWCOs are fairly uncommon, especially the 17-jewel and 21-jewel versions. I don't know how many 19-jewel versions were made. If you know, I'd be grateful if you posted the open-face and hunter production numbers.

DSC05474.JPG DSC05476.JPG DSC05478.JPG DSC05479.JPG DSC05482.JPG DSC05483.JPG DSC05484.JPG
DSC05486.JPG DSC05487.JPG DSC05488.JPG
 

richiec

NAWCC Member
Feb 24, 2007
7,021
710
113
68
Brick, Ocean, NJ
Country
Region
Ethan, I guess this is an up jeweled 17 jewel movement with caps on the escape wheel which probably makes it pretty rare. Maybe Tom or Jerry know more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mike M.

Ethan Lipsig

NAWCC Gold Member
Jan 8, 2006
2,382
2,129
113
72
Pasadena
Country
Region
The NAWCC serial number lookup says the watch came from a 17-jewel run. That this watch was up-jeweled is not its only quirk. I consulted with Jerry about this watch's more significant quirk, that the serial number on the pillar plate X,X00,030 does not match the number on the bridge. Normally, this would mean that the watch was a post-manufacture conglomeration of parts from different watches. In this case, Jerry told me that he thinks it is either an original combination or the result of a factory repair. He told me that the pillar plate most likely came from the 5,500,001-5,502,000 run of 15-jewel Riversides. The modifications needed to make that plate suitable for a 19-jewel AWCO are so substantial, including refinishing the visible side of the pillar plate up to AWCO standards, that he thought that only the factory would have made them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mike M.

rrwatch

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sep 4, 2000
1,472
400
83
74
Pooler, GA USA
www.antiquewatchmaker.com
Country
Region
Doing a fast search in the database that Kent Singer & I maintain I found the following marked American Watch Co. grade, there might be more that I missed:
5,000,110, 157, 225 and 570; 19 J, H/C
7,000,567, 585; 19 J O/F
There were different jewel counts in between, and all numbers are subject to errors, either in the original listing or by us.
 

Bostonjoe

Registered User
Oct 28, 2016
62
215
33
Massachusetts
Country
Region
I tend to wear pocket watches daily in the Fall and Winter, today I wore this 16 size Elgin, with a very nice personalized dial. The original owner, Glenn D. Holmes, was born in 1873, and eventually became a city engineer for Syracuse NY. Perhaps Glenn received it from his dad Joseph for his 25th birthday - his father was a noted inventor, and the civil engineer for Batavia NY.

Today I drove about southern New Hampshire, visiting antique stores. It was nice to get out and see some new scenery. Found a very nice 18 size Elgin movement with decorated dial, now I just need a SW, LS hunter case to go with it. The search should be fun.

IMG_1884.JPG IMG_1885.JPG IMG_1886.JPG
 

Ethan Lipsig

NAWCC Gold Member
Jan 8, 2006
2,382
2,129
113
72
Pasadena
Country
Region
I was hoping someone would reply to my message #62 giving production numbers for the different versions of the AWCO Model 1888. I tried to find that information on the NAWCC Waltham serial number database, but couldn't find it (perhaps because I didn't look for it properly). In going through my notes I see that some years ago I read or was told that total hunter and open face production was 500 19js, up to 100 21js. and less than 100 17js. If any of you have more detailed or better information, I hope you will post it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paul Sullivan

Jerry Treiman

NAWCC Member
Golden Circle
Aug 25, 2000
6,663
2,578
113
Los Angeles, CA
Country
Region
I was hoping someone would reply to my message #62 giving production numbers for the different versions of the AWCO Model 1888.
I found a 20-year old printout of a database query that (I believe) Tom McIntyre may have pulled together. It showed about 2,000 OF 19j movements and about 600 Htg 19j movements. The records were not entirely correct and there were some 21j movements produced which were listed as 19j and hunting movements listed as OF. Listings for 17j were apparently actually 19 jewel models. Totals for 21 jewel models were approximately 109 OF and 170 Htg, but in my glance at the records I see these are often alternating with 21j Riverside Maximus movements.

I have also seen Am'n W.Co grade movements listed as American grade.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ethan Lipsig

Bostonjoe

Registered User
Oct 28, 2016
62
215
33
Massachusetts
Country
Region
This week's Sunday carry is one of my older watches, a Waltham SN 50806. It has a simple shield decorating it's diminutive 2 ounce silver case. Along the way, someone replaced the glass crystal with a plastic one, which has yellowed with age. I figure it's part of its history, so am leaving it in place.

IMG_1892.JPG IMG_1893.JPG IMG_1894.JPG
 

Ethan Lipsig

NAWCC Gold Member
Jan 8, 2006
2,382
2,129
113
72
Pasadena
Country
Region
I just wound up my circa 1901 Elgin Grade 243.

It's in a 14k DuBois Watch Case Co. hunter case, #135,838, also stamped B.A. & Co., for Benjamin Allen & Co., a wholesaler. The cuvette is inscribed From your wife, To your 37[SUP]th[/SUP] birthday, May 10[SUP]th[/SUP], 1904. Movement, # 9,723,970.

Grade 243 is one of I believe four grades often referred to as lace doilies because of their exuberant dasmascening. Grade 243 was among the highest grade watches Elgin then was making. Grade 243s aren't plentiful. Elgin only made 4,000.

I'd be interested in your views on two oddities relating to this watch.

One is the wording of the inscription To your 37th birthday. For not to is how I would have expect this inscription to have been written. Do you think the For is (a) an engraver's mistake, (b) an inscription ordered by someone for whom English was a second language, (c) a one-time multi-year birthday present intended to cover a period of years up to the recipient's 37th birthday, or (d) the result of something else?

The other oddities are the bracketed words Ruralness and Rurality in the ad copy below. Did Elgin use them or were they inserted by someone, e.g., Meggers, who reprinted the ad. What do they mean?

IMG_1677.JPG IMG_1678.JPG IMG_1679.JPG IMG_1676.JPG IMG_1681.JPG IMG_1680.JPG IMG_1683.JPG IMG_1684.JPG scan0015.jpg
 

vintageguy

NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Oct 27, 2013
306
499
63
58
Minnesota
Country
Region
One is the wording of the inscription To your 37th birthday. For not to is how I would have expect this inscription to have been written. Do you think the For is (a) an engraver's mistake, (b) an inscription ordered by someone for whom English was a second language, (c) a one-time multi-year birthday present intended to cover a period of years up to the recipient's 37th birthday, or (d) the result of something else?
I'm guessing a scrivener's error. From: and To: are standard conventions for a gift label . . .

The other oddities are the bracketed words Ruralness and Rurality in the ad copy below. Did Elgin use them or were they inserted by someone, e.g., Meggers, who reprinted the ad. What do they mean?
Don't have a clue about this, but note that the font is "Small Caps" which is different than the rest of the ad.
 

Jerry Treiman

NAWCC Member
Golden Circle
Aug 25, 2000
6,663
2,578
113
Los Angeles, CA
Country
Region
The other oddities are the bracketed words Ruralness and Rurality in the ad copy below.
These were "telegraphic codes", unique to each model, for the jobber (or maybe the retailer?) to use in ordering movements from the factory or sales agent.
 

Kenny S.

NAWCC Member
Apr 12, 2020
204
314
63
56
Not far from South Park CO
Country
Region
One is the wording of the inscription To your 37th birthday. For not to is how I would have expect this inscription to have been written. Do you think the For is (a) an engraver's mistake,
Ethan, I too believe that this is an oversight. My grandfather hand engraved jewelry and trophies for the University of Iowa athletics back in the 40's- 60's. Watching him work, he would engrave for a while and take a break to rest his hands and so forth. My guess is this engraver had done the same, and simply forgot where he was. By the time he realized his mistake, it was too late. My guess is that this wife didn't have to pay for the engraving or she got a deep discount.
Thanks for sharing yet another stunning piece from your collection. That is a beautiful watch!
 

Jerry Treiman

NAWCC Member
Golden Circle
Aug 25, 2000
6,663
2,578
113
Los Angeles, CA
Country
Region
I wound up this massive coin silver Waltham hunter for today -
:emoji_upside_down: -- oh wait, here it is next to an 18-size Waltham.
18to1.jpg

My hunter for today is actually a 1-size --
3718007d.jpg 3718007m.jpg

... nicely proportioned, though, isn't it?
 

Bostonjoe

Registered User
Oct 28, 2016
62
215
33
Massachusetts
Country
Region
Today's carry is a private label Elgin, 18 size KWKS, SN: 897182. The dial and movement note the selling jeweler, S&T Child, Philadelphia. The dial is a particularly nice double-sunk example. The front of the case is unfortunately well-worn, I'm guessing it originally represented two ducks (one floating, one flapping its wings) in a marsh, anyone else have a guess?

IMG_2015.JPG IMG_2017.JPG IMG_2018.JPG
 

chas79

New Member
Feb 6, 2021
2
2
3
64
Country
Yesterday being Sunday, I skipped church & instead attended an annual antique sale held locally. That behaviour was mandated by this thread, in as much as I just had to procure a nice Sunday hunting carry.

So I found one in the form of an 18-size "Dueber" made by the Hampden company using its Model 2 platform back in 1892. It is lever set with 15 jewels, here are a few shots:

View attachment 527362 View attachment 527360

View attachment 527359 View attachment 527361

I especially like that the "Dueber" grade marking was placed on the dial & matches the coloration of the Arabic 5-minute markers in the outer orbit. They look orangey now but were originally red, I guess the enamel has faded over the century & a quarter of the watch's existence. The Keystone yellow gold-filled case has lost some detail on its covers but no brassing is evident.

That the watch sets, winds & runs keeping time was verified. It's now in my queue for servicing, for I won't run it any more until my watchmaker has done his thing.
I am new to the watch and clock sight, have inherited several items from a relative and admire the workmanship and craftmanship of watches and clocks. I have to get up to speed on each of them so your comments and recommendations are greatly encouraged and appreciated from the perspective of a novice searching for any/all information. The hunter is a Hampden serial # 1954801 and the wadsworth pilot case # 1198627. Many thanks - Chas

IMG_4678.jpg IMG_4679.jpg IMG_4680.jpg IMG_4687.JPG
 

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
7,316
3,839
113
New York State
Country
Chas,

Welcome to the NAWCC forum!



Rob
 

SpringDriven

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
110
183
43
One is the wording of the inscription To your 37th birthday. For not to is how I would have expect this inscription to have been written. Do you think the For is (a) an engraver's mistake, (b) an inscription ordered by someone for whom English was a second language, (c) a one-time multi-year birthday present intended to cover a period of years up to the recipient's 37th birthday, or (d) the result of something else?
I look at it as a toast, "From your Wife, To your 37th birthday"

"For your 37th birthday" is a reward or gift. From me for this.
"To your 37th birthday" is a celebration of the achievement. From me to this.

I am not an English major, so I could be off the mark, but the inscription seems normal to me.
 

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
7,316
3,839
113
New York State
Country
I'm putting this 0s Elgin in my pocket today and it will be there till Sunday so this
is a pre Sunday hunting post, but it is my Sunday hunting watch for this week.
I normally carry the same 16s(g. 478) everyday so it's a nice change up..

IMG_6942.jpg



Rob
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,130
1,492
113
67
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,130
1,492
113
67
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,130
1,492
113
67
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
I just wound up my circa 1901 Model 1899 Waltham American Watch Co. bridge model hunter. Sixteen-size AWCO bridge models are fairly scarce, but this particular example is one of only around six known examples with spotted damascening. It is marked "21 jewels" but actually has 23. I re-cased it in a 14k A.W.W.Co. case. It has the correct "Hull" dial.

View attachment 572782 View attachment 572783 View attachment 572784 View attachment 572785 View attachment 572786 View attachment 572781
I love the damaskeening on that bridge model, Ethan. You must have a case factory in your basement. All these terrific cases you seem to be able to come up with are incredible. By the way, your case is not an "AWWCo" product, it is an "AWC Co" product, which stands for American Watch Case Company. Apparently there were two case manufacturers who used that name, one a US firm and the other Canadian, whose periods of activity overlapped:

American Watch Case Co. | NAWCC Forums
 

Bostonjoe

Registered User
Oct 28, 2016
62
215
33
Massachusetts
Country
Region
Today's Sunday carry is a watch that just arrived from Rob Carter, who did his usual amazing repair work to get it going again. It is an early Waltham private label, SN: 555018. JF Sargent, a Mt Pleasant, Iowa jeweler. Housed in a worn 5 oz silver case, manufacturer unknown. Anyone have information on this particular jeweler, curious if his old shop building is still standing.

IMG_2125.JPG IMG_2126.JPG IMG_2127.JPG
 

Paul Sullivan

NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 15, 2011
724
556
93
69
Massachusetts
Country
Region
I haven't ran this since 2017 so today was a good excuse to take it out.

Hamilton 18s 931 17j ser. no. 16040 which was finished Oct.16, 1895 and sold Oct. 29, 1895 to jeweler P. Brady of Sharon PA according to the Hamilton ledgers. The watch was serviced after purchase and keeps extremely good time. It came in a hinged GF case (not original) marked only "PREMIER" on the dust cover along with the case serial number. The die engraved detail is very well done and still very crisp, especially the "pointing" blood hound on the case back.

Movment_A.jpg FUDial detail.jpg IMG_2833-tile.JPG
 

svenedin

NAWCC Member
Jan 28, 2010
1,132
180
63
Surrey
Country
Region
Does a half-hunter count for this thread?

I noticed to my amusement some confusing differences in British/US English in this thread that I had noticed before. In UK English a vest is an undergarment worn under a shirt. Also in UK English if I was “carrying” a watch it would imply I was walking around holding it in my hands! In the UK I would wear a pocket watch in a waistcoat or occasionally in the top pocket of a jacket or in a trouser pocket. Then again in US English trousers are “pants”. We don’t consider it polite to walk around in pants -they are worn underneath trousers.
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,130
1,492
113
67
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
Does a half-hunter count for this thread?

I noticed to my amusement some confusing differences in British/US English in this thread that I had noticed before. In UK English a vest is an undergarment worn under a shirt. Also in UK English if I was “carrying” a watch it would imply I was walking around holding it in my hands! In the UK I would wear a pocket watch in a waistcoat or occasionally in the top pocket of a jacket or in a trouser pocket. Then again in US English trousers are “pants”. We don’t consider it polite to walk around in pants -they are worn underneath trousers.
If you ever check into an American hotel, don't ask to be "knocked up" in the morning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: svenedin

Steven Thornberry

User Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Jan 15, 2004
23,243
1,423
113
Here and there
Country
If you ever check into an American hotel, don't ask to be "knocked up" in the morning.
And, unless you play a lot of rugby, don't mention hookers.
 

Lee Passarella

NAWCC Member
Jul 8, 2015
411
622
93
Country
Region
Does a half-hunter count for this thread?

I noticed to my amusement some confusing differences in British/US English in this thread that I had noticed before. In UK English a vest is an undergarment worn under a shirt. Also in UK English if I was “carrying” a watch it would imply I was walking around holding it in my hands! In the UK I would wear a pocket watch in a waistcoat or occasionally in the top pocket of a jacket or in a trouser pocket. Then again in US English trousers are “pants”. We don’t consider it polite to walk around in pants -they are worn underneath trousers.
I enjoy bangers, especially the Irish variety, though if they contained sulfites they would give me a headache. Interestingly, "bangers" seems to be a this-side-of-the-pond slang for a pop song with a lively beat. Being a classical music maven, that, too, would give me a headache. I'm sure.
 

svenedin

NAWCC Member
Jan 28, 2010
1,132
180
63
Surrey
Country
Region
I enjoy bangers, especially the Irish variety, though if they contained sulfites they would give me a headache. Interestingly, "bangers" seems to be a this-side-of-the-pond slang for a pop song with a lively beat. Being a classical music maven, that, too, would give me a headache. I'm sure.
Ah yes we certainly like bangers and mash. Incidentally, that is also sometimes used as a vulgarism for what might be found in the lavatory if someone hasn’t flushed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lee Passarella

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
7,316
3,839
113
New York State
Country

svenedin

NAWCC Member
Jan 28, 2010
1,132
180
63
Surrey
Country
Region
Yes do you have one you are going to wear?

Rob
Yes I have a number of half-hunters but only one full hunter. I wear my watches all the time, not just on Sundays. I have a half-hunter in mind that has been away for a major overhaul and I am hoping to get it back this week.
 
  • Like
Reactions: musicguy

Forum statistics

Threads
164,706
Messages
1,432,937
Members
85,756
Latest member
jtvx
Encyclopedia Pages
1,101
Total wiki contributions
2,863
Last edit
Rockford's early high grade movements by Greg Frauenhoff