Suggestions on refinishing the case

[bonusbuilt1950]

I have an old Seth Thomas clock That I want suggestions on what I can or need to do to restore it. I have scrubbed it with gojo hand cleaner and got alot of dirt off. I then cleaned and scrubbed it again with Murphy's oil soap. The water was quite dirty still. I'm going to clean it several more times with Murphy's until the cloth I dry it with is clean. I'm not sure on how to proceed on repairing the alligator finish. I've read a bunch of posts about how and what to use. Some say to use denatured alcohol or isopropyl alcohol, Some say not. wiping it on in the direction of the grain and wiping it off quickly. Some say to leave the finish as it is. I don't like the alligator or crazing finish. I read Craig's post on shellac finishing. It explains alot. I'm posting pics of my case after the cleaning. What do you suggest? And what color do you think this was finished in originally? 

 

[Colonial Chinoiserie]

I don't like alligatored wood either I have a Colonial Grandfather that has a pretty bad alligator effect to the finish. I reglued some loose trim, cleaned it thoroughly using wood soap like you, then applied a liberal amount of Howard feed and wax to the whole case and used a furniture marker. It turned out pretty good. Short of striiping off the finish & applying a new finish to the wood I think that is about as good as it's going to get. Good luck! I prefer original finish whenever possible and have not refinished any of my clocks. I conserve and preserve. If I really get tired of the finish on this one I might consider it though. I will check back to see if anyone else has some recommendations. Happy New Year! Bill

 

[Vernon]

Hello Bonus,
A book that was helpful to me was The Furniture Doctor by George Grotz. Make sure that it is shellac and not varnish.

Here is a Seth Thomas that I did and I ended up taking all of the shellac off which wasn't my original intent. I used shellac flakes. The new finish was too glossy so I dulled it with 0000 steel wool. Doing that did dull it but then it looked scratched. I repeated the whole process maybe 4 times dusting and blowing with compressed air between coats before a final dusting then using a wood wax. The wax softened the look and gave the piece a glow that I was looking for.

Vernon

 

[Colonial Chinoiserie]

Nice job! I have the same clock in a light oak with a different looking dial-What kind of wood is that case?

Happy New Year

Bill

 

[Vernon]

Thank you Bill,
My case I believe is walnut. The dial is a repaint by the Dial House and matches the original which was flaking badly.
Your Colonial is beautiful and certainly makes a statement. It would be a challenge to redo the finish with all of that dental work.

Something that I would do different on the next one is to make the shellac to alcohol mixture thinner.

Happy and Healthy New Year!
Vernon

 

[Allan Wolff]

Bonusbuilt,
I'm not a fan of alligator finish either. Sometimes it looks OK, but the finish on your case does not look good to me.
I picked up a clock a few years ago at a regional that looked almost black, you could not see the wood grain at all. I stripped the old finish off with Citristrip. It removed the old shellac, or whatever that nasty finish was, but it did not remove the original stain. All I had to do was put on a few coats of shellac and it came out with a beautiful cherry finish. I left the high gloss finish as it seemed to fit the style of the clock. The dial was also cleaned up and resilvered.

 

[ToddT]

I'm also not a fan of alligatoring to the point were the finish just always looks dull/dirty and/or obscures the beauty of the wood underneath.

What really triggered my exploration back into wood finishes was when we added an addition to our old farmhouse and had the trim cut to match the original. My wife and I did all the staining and finish work using polyurethane. (I have since discovered the original trim (1910) was shellacked after the trim was installed.) Here is a sample of the work. In the first picture, those are 9-inch baseboards, 15 feet long, to provide some perspective.


Then I rediscovered my love for clocks. This is one of my first purchases, a poor Gilbert that was severely alligatored. I paid all of $18 for it. And thus was introduced to shellac.

I cleaned it, then attempted amalgamating some fresh shellac into it (heavy on the alcohol). Nothing looked right. I ended up stripping all the old shellac off, using only denatured alcohol. This left the original stain. I didn't sand anything, only wiped it down well. Then put on several coats of fresh shellac. The oak wood absolutely glows! I like the glossy finish, but haven't decided yet if I'm going to buff it back to something softer.



I've been doing some additional trim work (new kitchen) where I've finished with glossy urethane, then knocked it back to a satin finish with 0000 steel wool lubricated with paste wax. That does create a very nice, soft finish that feels great! I've considered doing that with this clock, but haven't yet pulled that trigger.

I have received a lot of advice regarding shellac from this forum and elsewhere on the internet. I've attempted french polishing, but am nowhere near having that mastered.

 

[Bruce Alexander]

Hi,
There is a Warren Formula/Method which will thoroughly clean and tone down some of the crinkled alligatored finish without stripping. Some collectors prefer that their items retain as much originality as possible. Some folks just can't abide alligators in their collection!

In some cases the Warren method will leave the finish looking somewhat like leather; at least in my hands it will. Please see this post for more details: Joel Warren Method: Before and After Refinishing

Happy collecting!

Bruce

 

[tracerjack]

Not a fan either of old, cracked and dirty shellac that obscures the beauty of the wood. I want my clocks to look like they have been cherished, not left in a barn. Unless the clock is rare, “original vs restored” is rarely a factor in its value, so strip the old finish if it bothers you. If you do, the stain color usually becomes easy to see.

 

[Dave T]

I've read a lot of threads about restoring alligatored finishes. But I have yet to see a noticeable example of one that has been restored without removing and refinishing.
In the case posted here, I would strip and refinish.

 

[Schatznut]

With the degree of alligatoring on your clock, you may find that the shellac may be much more easily removed by using a furniture scraper than a liquid remover. I was fortunate that way with a mahogany mantel clock recently - I used no liquid whatsoever, just scraped it, smoothed it with steel wool and applied fresh shellac.

 

[Dave T]

With the degree of alligatoring on your clock, you may find that the shellac may be much more easily removed by using a furniture scraper than a liquid remover. I was fortunate that way with a mahogany mantel clock recently - I used no liquid whatsoever, just scraped it, smoothed it with steel wool and applied fresh shellac.

Nice job! What did you use for a scraper?

 

[Schatznut]

Thank you - this was my first attempt and it came out way better than I was hoping. I used a flat steel cabinet scraper, which can be purchased from many different furniture refinishing suppliers like Rockler. In the curved areas I used an artist's palette knife. It was amazing - pulling the scraper at just the right angle caused the old shellac to simply pop off the surface, leaving the wood ready for a little smoothing and a new finish. Here's a photo of the finished project.

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

After using Denatured alcohol to try to rejuvenate the finish, I gave up on that approach because it would not soften it enough to fill in the cracks. I used the alcohol to remove all the old shellac off the case. Maybe I didn't do it correctly, don't know. I think it's walnut underneath all the dirt and crud. I started sanding it with 320 grit paper. My question is, what can I use to get the rest of the old finish out of the 90 degree corners? Should I use a razor blade and gently scrape the black? Don't want to sand too hard and damage the veneer on the curved areas. I tried one of those corner sanders, but they still don't get close enough to get rid of the black. basically looking for suggestions. Thanks!

 

[Schatznut]

in the corners, I've successfully used a artist's palette knife to scrape the old finish off, finished off with steel wool. Hope this helps. I like where you've gotten it already - looks like it will take the new finish very nicely! #0000 steel wool will be your best friend...

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

in the corners, I've successfully used a artist's palette knife to scrape the old finish off, finished off with steel wool. Hope this helps. I like where you've gotten it already - looks like it will take the new finish very nicely! #0000 steel wool will be your best friend...

Thanks for the advice. I'll go to the craft store and see what they have. I have to replace 2 pieces of veneer on the top edge of the lower curve on each size. one broke thru some time ago and had some putty in the hole. other side is also damaged slightly. Easier to replace.

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

I've finished the case with mahogany stain, replaced 2 small pieces of veneer and put 2 coats of Polyurethane on it and dulled the finish slightly and put the Beeswax on it. Came out nice to me, Rehung the back door and latch. Of course, I misplaced the little knob on the door. I was so careful to put it in with the movement mounting hardware and yet, I can't find it! Does anyone know of a place to buy a small knob? It may be 3/8" by 3/8" diameter with a 1/4-5/16" short stub to fit the hole in the door. Pretty small.

 

[tracerjack]

Now it looks just like it should if someone had taken care of it during its lifetime. Love seeing the beautiful grain of the wood. You might yet find the knob, and it is worth looking for. Haven’t found a source yet for such small knobs. Maybe look for jewelry box parts.

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

Now it looks just like it should if someone had taken care of it during its lifetime. Love seeing the beautiful grain of the wood. You might yet find the knob, and it is worth looking for. Haven’t found a source yet for such small knobs. Maybe look for jewelry box parts.

That knob will turn up after I find a replacement. Always the way!! Lol!

 

[ToddT]

Nice.

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

Nice.

Thanks!