Stuck Cannon Pinion?

[carlor]

Hi there,

I'm a complete newbie and I'm breaking down my first pocket watch in order to clean, lube and reassemble it... and maybe even get it ticking again! My goal with this is to learn by doing. I have an "Admiral" pocket watch and I almost have it completely disassembled but I'm stuck with the cannon pinion/center wheel. I can't seem to get them appart. I've tried levering from the bottom of the center wheel but I feel I'm already exerting too much force. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,

Carlo.

 

[roughbarked]

The thing is. You are suppposed to do that before you take the rest of the watch apart. You have gone about it the wrong way.

You'll need to put the bridge that holds the centre wheel back on and then you turn it over and pull the canon pinion off.

New centre wheels for Cyma Admiral watch ain't going to be easy to find.

 

[carlor]

The thing is. You are suppposed to do that before you take the rest of the watch apart. You have gone about it the wrong way.

You'll need to put the bridge that holds the centre wheel back on and then you turn it over and pull the canon pinion off.

New centre wheels for Cyma Admiral watch ain't going to be easy to find.

I hope I didn't mess it up. I'll give that a try, but I don't understand how having the bridge in place will make it easier to remove the cannon pinion. Note that I don't have a remover tool.

Thanks,

Carlo.

 

[Bila]

I've tried levering from the bottom of the center wheel

This you do not do, do you have a cannon pinion remover, if you do not you should buy one, I have seen enough bent/snapped off center wheel arbors that it is sickening.

The thing is. You are suppposed to do that before you take the rest of the watch apart. You have gone about it the wrong way.

You'll need to put the bridge that holds the centre wheel back on and then you turn it over and pull the canon pinion off.

New centre wheels for Cyma Admiral watch ain't going to be easy to find.

As Roughbark has said you have gone about it the wrong-way, but the statement in regards to having to put the bridge back on is a bit erroneous if you have the correct tool, the canon pinion can be removed without doing that with the correct tool. I would say because you are a new beginner his advice is sound.

I hope I didn't mess it up. I'll give that a try, but I don't understand how having the bridge in place will make it easier to remove the cannon pinion. Note that I don't have a remover tool.

Read my directly above paragraph

 

[roughbarked]

It simply reduces the risks by putting the bridge back on. If the pinion is tight then a solid base is required.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Carlo,

Trying to remove the cannon pinion with the centre arbor unsupported will risk damaging the arbor and possibly the plate, or even breaking the arbor off. You stand a better chance of shifting the pinion if the centre arbor is stable and that's why roughbarked has suggested installing the bridge again. However, what you do next depends on what tools you have available; a small pair of levers could do the job, but first of all see if you can rotate the cannon pinion on the arbor without trying to pull it off. If it's stuck, this can help by releasing whatever's holding it; corrosion, old oil or something else.

Alternatively, if you have a small punch which fits inside the cannon pinion, you could try tapping it out, (I'm guessing that you don't have a staking set?), but that would have to be without the bridge in place. Do you have any pin vices?

Whatever you try, make sure that you don't put any sideways pressure on it.

Regards,

Graham

 

[carlor]

Hi Carlo,

Trying to remove the cannon pinion with the centre arbor unsupported will risk damaging the arbor and possibly the plate, or even breaking the arbor off. You stand a better chance of shifting the pinion if the centre arbor is stable and that's why roughbarked has suggested installing the bridge again. However, what you do next depends on what tools you have available; a small pair of levers could do the job, but first of all see if you can rotate the cannon pinion on the arbor without trying to pull it off. If it's stuck, this can help by releasing whatever's holding it; corrosion, old oil or something else.

Alternatively, if you have a small punch which fits inside the cannon pinion, you could try tapping it out, (I'm guessing that you don't have a staking set?), but that would have to be without the bridge in place. Do you have any pin vices?

Whatever you try, make sure that you don't put any sideways pressure on it.

Regards,

Graham

Unfortunately, I don't have a pinion puller, pin vise or a staking set. Living in Canada makes getting tools a bit challenging. To buy a $12 USD puller from the US would cost $26 USD for shipping! Most of the videos I've watched showed the cannon pinion simply being removed with tweezers. When I spin the center wheel, the cannon pinion on the other side spins as well, which I assume it's supposed to do. I'll try putting the bridge back on to prevent bending the arbor. I'll continue looking for a pinion puller (a pin vise would be easier to get here), but if worse comes to worse, I'll just leave it in place and work around it.


Thank you,

Carlo.

 

[roughbarked]

Many canon pinions can be removed using tweezers but these are well practiced people who have been doing it for quite a while.
Hand lifting tools work for some canon pinions but the robustness of proper canon pinion lifter/puller may be a requirement for some. Tapping the centre wheel through with a small punch will also work but the main plate will need to be supported with some type of anvil that will fit over the centre wheel.

Lubrication will help.

 

[Bila]

To buy a $12 USD puller from the US would cost $26 USD for shipping!

Much more expensive in Australia to buy from the US, but you just might have to bite the bullet and shell out the bucks. In the long run if you want to get into the Horology game it pays to be patient. While you are waiting for funds to buy a few good hand tools read-up and learn as much as you can about repair the correct way.

Just some friendly advice regarding the net; some of the watch repair videos on the internet are not a great way to learn watch repair, so be carefully what info you glean from some of them, this way you will have a chance of not picking-up any bad habits.

 

[roughbarked]

Yes. It may be relatively easy to remove canon pinions of wrist watches with a pair of tweezers but this is not an easy task on a pocket watch. A lifter is required.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Carlo,

When I spin the center wheel, the cannon pinion on the other side spins as well, which I assume it's supposed to do.

Yes, it is supposed to rotate with the centre wheel when the watch is running, but what I was suggesting is that you try and turn the cannon pinion when holding the centre wheel still, as would be the case if you were setting the hands. There has to be enough friction between the cannon pinion and the centre arbor for the movement to drive the hands, but not so much that hand setting isn't possible.

Another word of caution; if you're tempted to use pliers to shift it, most general purpose pliers have serrated jaws, which have no place in watch repair because they can damage the parts they're gripping. Smooth jaw pliers are part of the tool kit you'll accumulate if you pursue the hobby.

I do agree with Bila's caution about online videos, the hard part when you're first starting out is to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Al J]

I do agree with Bila's caution about online videos, the hard part when you're first starting out is to separate the wheat from the chaff.

And from what I see, 99% of it is chaff...

 

[roughbarked]

And from what I see, 99% of it is chaff...

See. I have nil watchmaking videos on the net.

 

[Appa69]

Hand pullers can work in a pinch. Presto style is better for this application.