Strange

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by RJSoftware, Mar 22, 2011.

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  1. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
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    Is it my imagination, or do we seem to have a larger number of "brand-new-newbians" who seem to ask and have greater skills than a newbian would normally have...?

    (paying close attention to the expressed details)

    If it's motive is simply more attention and kindness given to newbians rather than wanna bees who occasionally make social mistakes, maybe we should adjust our attitudes to be a little more gracious.

    Or if its motive is to flood the mb with multiple identities to start a flame war with itself, what then..? (I believe mult id has been resolved too).

    So far the prior fits, in which case I feel youthful invigorated opinions should not be discourage in total, even if wrong or misleading.

    Enthusiasm is energy given freely. Good mentoring simply turns the focus in the right direction. A sticky of good books...!

    OR it could also be that this MB has become more efficient. That newbians lurk a bit, pick up what they need enough to actually do more than the usual and then finally come to the point where they feel confident enough to ask questions.

    Its just a point of curiosity to me.

    RJ
     
  2. Mike Phelan

    Mike Phelan Registered User

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    Don't think there's anything ominous RJ. If anyone joins a forum for any subject, it doesn't mean they know nothing about the subject.

    Speaking as a moderator elsewhere on different non-clock subjects, we do get multiple IDs woth different names, and the usual reason is that they have forgotten their password or lost the cookie. We spot them by the IP address and ban the new one.
    We also get spammers from the Far East, but they are also banned, usually before members see them. This is worth its weight in gold!

    You have a thing about bees!
    Not everyone learns by reading books - some learn by watching, others by conversation.
    One problem with books is that a total newbie might not know exactly what they want to learn; what clocks/watches, how far to go and whether they want to do it as a hobby or business.
    The alternative is to spend £££££ on books and cover all four walls with bookshelves!
     
  3. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Mike, I use that spam check site quite a bit when a suspicious name comes up. We probably ban 10 for every one who actually sneaks a post in. Also use this one: http://www.botscout.com/

    RJ, we are getting a lot of enthusiastic younger members. Could have something to do with coming up on the first page of just about every clock or watch related google search.
     
  4. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    I am glad to see newbies come here.I dont mind sharing what i know and helping them develop a interest in the hobby.
     
  5. Dave B

    Dave B Banned

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    #5 Dave B, Mar 22, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
    It does seem to me that the skill/knowledge level is a little higher in recent months, but I suspect that, like many things, that comes in waves. I like to hope it is because more newcomers are able to find what they need at first by lurking/searching/reading. If that is so, then it would seem this board is serving one of its stated objectives.
     
  6. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    It's quite possible that our sticky's are bringing a change in the ability to name parts correctly. That makes the inquiries seem to have a basis in knowledge that it may not really be there.
     
  7. dgladstone

    dgladstone Registered User

    Jan 23, 2011
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    I think you just might not be giving yourselves enough credit.

    I think any newbie reading this forum would quickly learn enough to ask the right questions, or questions close enough so that the experienced clock makers here can figure out what they're talking about.

    In my opinion this place is a gold mine for anyone interested in clocks. I browsed through a few other forums and many web sites before finding this place. When I first started reading this forum it was as if the floodgates of knowledge had burst open.

    I'm still a newbie, but I'm gaining a glimmer of understanding of clocks here and a lot of respect for those who repair them.
     
  8. Ravenhook

    Ravenhook Registered User

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    I'm a "newbian" :D and I knew absolutely nothing about clocks until I was pointed in the right direction by the kindness of those members here...but, I used to be an engineer so I guess that helped a little.
    Duncan.
     
  9. Bill Johnson

    Bill Johnson Registered User

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    I have been a member for almost a year. I have seriously been a collector for about four years. I really enjoy doing basic repairs on my clocks, but would never service another persons clock. I received encouragement from members of the local chapter here in Louisville, KY and now have much more confidence in my alility. I have purchased and studied most of the books available through the supply houses.

    I guess what I want to say is that I admire you "real" clock repair people greatly and want to thank you for helping me with something that I really enjoy in my retirement! Thanks, Bill Johnson
     
  10. swankyman

    swankyman Registered User

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    You just can't learn this stuff with out all of you experts pointing the way.
    This is just a hobby of mine and sometimes sell the ones I don't think go with what I am collecting.
    But with out this site I would think, I would have never even collect clocks as it is expense to have them fix, but more enjoyable when you do the work yourself.

    The first clock was a 1850's cuckoo I bought to resell but after reading here and done the repairs I couldn't part with it!!
     
  11. Randy Hirst

    Randy Hirst Registered User

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    I've been collecting/repairing clocks for a long time, but just recently started using this post. I REALLY appreciate the knowledge and patience shown by you experts. It's hard to use most of the books I have because I often get lost in the terminology. Thanks to all and don't get frustrated when I post something stupid!:D
     
  12. flatlander10

    flatlander10 Registered User

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    If it wasn't for this forum I would still have a 1 day and 8 day Cuckoo clock not working. And I also advanced at that, to put together my own cuckoo clock from scratch. Now I purchased a used Herbert Herr Cuckoo clock with a music movement solely to learn how they work. And I think I got that down pat. The hard thing to determine now is to put it back into the public for sale or not. My chores now are to get my Mother in Laws 50 or so Cuckoo's cleaned , oiled and working and I am halfway there thanks to all the info on this forum. Fortunately, I haven't run across a basket case yet, but if I should, I know where to turn to. I also dabbled with mainspring wall clocks without incidence. actually that was the the first time splitting the plates apart. Then my next adventure was with a Schatz 400 day anniversary clock. All successes so far. Barring a couple of black and blue thumb nails for not having a decent let down tool. I'm sure I'm not the first here either.
    I truly thank this forum for all the knowledge I've gain thus far.
    It gives me something productive to do while I have an abundance of time being laid off.

    flatlander10
     
  13. John P

    John P Registered User
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    I think a lot of the influx of new clock people is due to the advent of EBay. Here we can purchase an old junker and learn and if we mess it up, so what. We cant get an internship in a clock shop, They are so few and I have found that some clock repair people are stand-offish and too proud of their knowledge.

    Not so here on the MB. I am going to college here in my own way. Picking up what i can and appying it to a passion I discovered late in life and in part due to a dose of cancer.

    I am thankful for the men who take the time to correct and help. I have run across some smart ellics but they are forgiven.

    Clock reparing is an art, a skill thats fading, and here is your chance to give it a boost.
    :)
    Hats off the the Message Board.

    John
     
  14. Mike Phelan

    Mike Phelan Registered User

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    Seconded! :thumb:

    Most of the clock shops here are just sellers of modern junk and there are few repairers. Lets hope the USA doesn't fall into that.

    There's always hope.
     
  15. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    I see several things in play here. Probably one of the biggest is the explosion of the Internet and Google. People tend to look on-line as a first source now, where a few years ago one would have looked to the printed page in a library.

    I never really liked the term “newbie” as it seems to have a bit of a condescending ring to it. I guess we are all “newbies” when we tackle a movement we have never seen before – I know I am. As with any hobby or avocation (or future career that begins as such) there will always be a falling away. A lot more students are entering college than there are graduating with masters degrees. A discussion board like this will naturally have more people new to clock collecting and repairing post because these are the people with the most questions. It’s only natural to anticipate that as one gains experience and knowledge there will be fewer occasions to post questions – at least basic questions, and some may simply drop this pursuit for something else.

    Another concern, especially for moderators, is that (more so in the past than now) some threads have become rather rude and disrespectful or out right arguments where one individual or another would be sarcastic to another, or in some cases insist that his method or way is the only way any everyone else is unprofessional. No one knows everything and no one likes to come up against someone who thinks they do. I stopped following this board for several months because everything seemed to turn into an argument. I think the moderators are doing a better job now, and that may be another reason we are seeing more posts from those just starting out – both of which are good.

    Along the same line, I suspect that some of those who feel that everything must be “by the book” with no exception and if one is not a certified apprenticed clockmaker then one can’t know anything, may have drifted away to be with other like-minded individuals. That’s unfortunate but just the way things are. I think there should be room for the discussion of basic questions and highly technical issues debated when done respectfully and where fact and opinion are presented as such.
     
  16. Thyme

    Thyme Banned

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    You could use the term 'neophyte' or 'novice' if you prefer. "Newbie" is a term spawned by the internet. Nothing inherently condescending about it - but there wasn't any real need to coin a new word. It's probably a case of groupspeak (click here).
     
  17. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    #17 RJSoftware, Mar 23, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011
    Hey Croswell.

    First let me say that I hope you understand that my thinking is I would hope everyone who comes aboard this mb to have a good time.

    Enjoy horology. It's fun.

    In my perspective, even though this is a site about horology in specific, I find many things interrelate.

    But, more importantly, I find socializing here is pleasant. It is not often in any location of anywhere that I know near me that I can spend time chatting about things of interest to me. Horology is high on my list. Try discussing that at some of the other chat rooms.

    Thing is, sometimes we step on each others toes, but just a little. Some want stricter rules while others want more relaxed. But this is a small conflict, those that desire a more polite subject specific remind us not to drift too far and to stay on tract. Those of us who enjoy an occasional spoof for entertainment sake feel that this group has lightened up for the good of everyone.

    At one point it was soo serious here, in this site moderators where expressing the desire that "humour" was out of place. Infact discouraged.

    There where threats of lawsuits, or at least talk of threats of lawsuits got everybody a little edgy towards one another. Least in my recollection. They even cracked down with explicitly stating the rules in numerical order. Often reffering to the rules.

    Then came a time when some of those who had feelings hurt etc signed up with multiple ids for some accomplishment unknown. Starting flame wars even with themselves. But that has stopped.

    What I wanted/tried to express was that if it where the case that a person who no longer qualified as a newbian, kept re-registering to requalify as a newbian in order to have the welcome matt re-rolled out and attention paid to them, that it may be our general attitude as a group may need to be modified to take this into account.

    So comparing this to raising children, when the child is borne it's all perfectly cute and adorable. We tend to roll out the red carpet. But, when that child grows into the teen years and life hands out its various difficulties, it is then that we need to roll up our sleeves and pitch in harder. The critical years are the teen years.

    It is school, in specific that is their challenge. It is the job of the parent to push for college. Reading the books and doing ones homework is the key to success in school.

    A parent that does not help the child to understand the homework is not doing a parents job. It actually hurts sometimes to do it. Some teachers are homework light while others are homework heavy. One had us up every night for extra 2 and 3 hours each school night. Eating late dinner gets aggrivating. Assignments handed out over holidays, ruins the holiday. Well, not ruined but puts a crimp in it. But, if your not there to supervise then you watch your kids grades sink. You have to be there to push.

    On the other hand, a child who does not open the book and read the chapters and does the research on their own is relying too much upon the parent and will be weak during testing.

    It is a balance of considerations. So, with this MB, understand what you may be misinterpreting as snobbery, the tighter you stick to the books on the subject of clock/watch repair, the greater your accomplishments will be.

    One of the greatest selling pitches that inspired me to buy a book was actual quotes from the books or as near verbatim. Having a firm handle of the subject is empowering...!

    Some have no patients to repeat things. To them I say think of the value of members.

    What is good for the Nawcc...?

    More members.

    What keeps members coming back?

    Answered questions

    AND

    Socializing...!

    Life is a party especially when your in the mood. :Party:

    RJ



     
  18. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    R. J. I agre with everything you just said. The MB as it is today has evolved to good balance. I hope it stays that way for a long time. newcommers (by whatever term) should always be most welcome. Way back before most of my hair fell out I spent 18 years teaching in the public school......maybe that's why hair did fall out!
     
  19. Mike Phelan

    Mike Phelan Registered User

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    #19 Mike Phelan, Mar 24, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
    Just my two penn'orth. I agree with RC and RJ.

    Message boards / forums (fora?) have different reasons for their existence.

    At one end of the spectrum they are easy-going and loosely moderated chat shows based on a particular subject.
    That's OK; the downside is that a thread can end up with 1000 posts that are nothing to do with the original subject, and if anyone is searching for that subject, they can spend hours trawling through them.

    On the other hand, MB's can be mainly for collecting data and repair information, and are tightly moderated. I am one of 11 moderators on one such site and though we allow (and need) a bit of humour, anything going completely off topic is stopped. The members do appreciate this, as we solve many difficult questions with our collective expertise, and it's appreciated.

    As for the term 'newbie' it's not derogatory and refers to being a new member, not someone new to the subject.

    To summarise, it's down to who owns the site - if they say an apple is a pear, then it is while we're here. Nobody has to post or join - moaning about the (unpaid) moderation team who spend a lot of hidden time achieves nothing.

    Despite the different approach to clocks in general and a different culture and language (both generally in UK and individually for me) I enjoy it on here and like chatting and helping folk now we have a better team in the 'staff room' so though that might seem altruistic, long may it be; I have made many friends in cyberspace.
     

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