Stem Wind 1857, when did Waltham begin to make these

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by richiec, Jan 20, 2018.

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  1. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    Feb 24, 2007
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    When did Waltham start to produce their own stem wind Model 1857 movement. I just got this one, #597037, pinned dial, key set in a Fahy's nickel case today. I am in the process of stripping it down to clean it. It had a broken mainspring of which I had one left. It is over sprung with 15 jewels probably making it a fairly high grade for its day. It is kind of strange that it is still key set.

    IMG_0682.JPG IMG_0683.JPG IMG_0684.JPG IMG_0685.JPG IMG_0688.JPG IMG_0687.JPG
     
    Rick Hufnagel likes this.
  2. topspin

    topspin Registered User

    Dec 14, 2014
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    I fed that into the lookup and the first few rows which came back were...

    11/1871 12/1873 597001 598000 1000 1857 WWCo 18 4 pr 15 FP HC WA 12/2002 S.W, Pat Pin
    11/1872 1/1873 651001 653000 2000 1857 PSB 18 4 Holes 11 FP HC MH 1/2003 sw \ adj
    2/1873 4/1873 673001 674000 1000 1857 PSB 18 4 Holes 11 FP HC MH 1/2003 sw \ adj \ e
    5/1873 3/1878 707001 707951 951 1857 WWCo 18 4 pr 15 FP HC MH 1/2003
    707952 707970 19 1857 Not Made 15 FP HC MH 1/2003
    10/1876 10/1877 707971 708000 30 1857 WWCo 18 4 pr 15 FP HC MH 1/2003
    10/1873 4/1874 708001 709000 1000 1857 WWCo 18 4 pr 15 FP HC MH 1/2003
    10/1874 1/1876 749001 749400 400 1857 Home 18 Plain 7 FP HC MH 1/2003
    11/1874 1/1875 749401 749500 100 1857 Home 18 4 Holes 11 FP HC MH 1/2003 sw


    So unless someone has sharper eyes than me, yours is from the first recorded non-KW run... so there is an error....?

    It looks like stemwind was introduced very gradually, as an occasional thing... but that might be just a result of the jumbled order they were doing their runs in. If the runs had been being produced in sequence, then maybe we would see a clearer startpoint.
     
  3. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    Nice to know it is from the first run. I am going to service it and put in a new mainspring and see how she goes. The jewels all look good. the balance and hairspring look good. no rust or corrosion. Have to remember you can't turn the crown backwards.
     
  4. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
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    I have an 608,776. It’s labeled “Waltham Watch Company, 15j. Mine does not have a key wind arbor

    Tom
     
  5. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    Unusual, stem wind, key set. Just looked it up in Price's book and found information regarding the unusual set up.
     
  6. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    Cleaned it and installed a new mainspring, will see what kind of time it keeps overnight, have to change the minute hand, it has an open style moon hand, I think I have a few key wind minute hands.The I have to see if I can find a proper hunter case for it. I think it must have been in a coin silver case that wore out as this case has no other screw marks.
     
  7. ben_hutcherson

    ben_hutcherson Registered User
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    There's been some discussion about the exact reasoning behind the stemwind/keyset movements. Something else interesting about them is that there's no ratchet on the winding arbor, so it can only be turned in the winding direction.

    I had one for a while, also in WWCo grade(the WWCo grade was generally considered the second best of standard production 57s behind the AT&Co). Interestingly enough, I bought my movement uncased. The hunting cases that are correct for these are distinctive as they will have a female stem, a hinged bezel, and no slot for a set lever. One popped up on this board with someone asking what it was, and considering cutting a lever slot in it. Fortunately, I was able to talk him out of it and work out a price that was fair to both of us for the case(it wasn't a huge amount of money, but more than I'd have normally been inclined to pay for a lightish silver HC with some wear on it).
     
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  8. vintageguy

    vintageguy Registered User
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    I have two of these Model 1857 WWCo grade stemwind/key set movements, SN 597583 and 597880 . Both are cased, and as far as I can tell the cases are right. Both came from the John Wilterding collection. I think they are interestingly odd, and I can't imagine a lot of them were made?

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