Starcam removal, Hamburg American

[Jaap]

Ignore this post haddend seen all the pictures.

 

[disciple_dan]

What's wrong with this picture?

 

[Royce]

Dan,
IMHO, it appears to me that both screws on the Synchronizing linkage are screwed down tight. I believe that the screw on the long arm should be loose whereas the long arm screw can slide in the linkage when the the long arm is trying to lift up and push the spring arm up to disengage the chime cam. If that screw is tight, when the long arm tries to lift up it is concurrently pushing down against the synchronizing lever via the fixed linkage which may be enough force to keep the spring arm stop from clearing the chime cam. Anyway, just my thoughts.

 

[disciple_dan]

They're not tight. Both screws have a shoulder. The linkage is free to travel in the slots. See post # 36.
Thanks, Danny

 

[wow]

What's wrong with this picture?
View attachment 599710 View attachment 599711 View attachment 599712 View attachment 599713

Dan, I cannot tell from the photos what is wrong. I would only be able to help (maybe) if you do a video showing what’s happening.

 

[disciple_dan]

You see in this shot that the lift is maxed out, it won't go any higher. If I open the notch to try to gain some height it would solve the hight problem. However, after the foot of the primary cam falls off the lobe and the lever is at rest, the finger of the notch on top of primary cam pushes the foot too far to the left and then the lobe does not even engage with the foot. Picture 2 in post #52 illustrates this. The wire is 1.5 mm. As you can see in pic 2. there is a "0" lift. This wire simulates bending the notch finger down to create more lift but it fails by moving the foot out of contact with the lobe.
Help me think about that line between the top of the primary lift cam and lift lever setting on top of it. The weight of the upper lever is going to always try to keep the lines parallel to one another. If you take the wire out in pic two those pieces become parallel.
If I can bend the upper lever (The one sitting on top of the primary cam.) down at that inside elbow and probably close the notch in the process, That would move the foot of the primary cam too far to the right. Right? Then, holding that angle, bend just the finger of the notch down to hold the foot in the proper position and cause lift also. I'm thinking that will greatly affect the lifting of strike lever too.
I'm not sure about all this but I'm trying to think in a different direction as I have come to a dead-end the other way.
I'll try to do a video later. If I narrate during the video would you be able to hear me? Writings leave a lot of interpretation to be done.
Ok, I have to get my yard work done before it gets to 100 today, be back this afternoon. Thanks, d_d

 

[wow]

I'll try to do a video later. If I narrate during thevideo would you be able to hear me? Writingsleave a lot of interpretation to be done.
Ok, I have to get my yard work done before itgets to 100 today, be back this afternoon. Thanks
Great idea, Dan. I got mine done early. Supposed to be almost 100 here today too.

 

[Royce]

Dan, this won't help solve your current issue but it may give you an additional research path to consider. If you look up the posting Re: HAC/Junghans overhaul, you will find your exact movement shown and being discussed in 2013. The good news, your parts are original and not re-manufactured (possibly excluding the star cam which is not shown in their pictures). Your movement is actually a W 200 Junghans made in 1934 and renamed "HAC" according to Jurgen "Soaringjoy". Hope this helps.

 

[disciple_dan]

 

[disciple_dan]

I guess this video link won't work until 7-12-2020 and 12:00 am. I don't know why?? That's what youtube says.

 

[disciple_dan]

Royce, Thanks for the link. That's going to be very helpful.

 

[disciple_dan]

Re: HAC/Junghans overhaul
So, go to the link of this post and see photo one. Look at the point where the primary cam lifts the chime lock lever. Does it look like a little of the very tip of that finger has been filed off? There I go wanting to file something. I don't know I'm running out of ideas.

 

[wow]

Re: HAC/Junghans overhaul
So, go to the link of this post and see photo one. Look at the point where the primary cam lifts the chime lock lever. Does it look like a little of the very tip of that finger has been filed off? There I go wanting to file something. I don't know I'm running out of ideas.

Maybe you could send a message to David S since he started that thread. He may still have the movement or notes or photos he could share.

 

[disciple_dan]

A person just gave me a clock to overhaul since it "keeps stopping".

This is the way that tread starts. It was a repair I think. I will try to talk to him though.
Thanks for all the help. I'm just going to file down the chime lock lever. I'm pretty sure that will work. I don't have time to keep beating on it. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks again, Danny

 

[disciple_dan]

This is really getting frustrating. I'm so glad I have church today. I'll have a different outlook when I return to it.
It's hard for me to imagine why I don't see the solution to this seemingly simple adjustment.
Does anyone know and able to explain the science the engineer used to design this on the board? That seems to be where I need to go to right this, the proverbial drawing board.
Thanks, Danny

 

[Royce]

Danny, I watched your video about 10 times and I believe you may have identified the solution without realizing it when you inserted the flattened piece of wire on top right end of the lift cam to simulate opening the adjustment slot on the strike flirt further. This made the leg of the lift cam shift clockwise a bit and the made the star cam essentially miss the lift cam leg. Consider closing the slot slightly which will shift the leg counter clockwise a bit and the star cam should hit the lift cam leg further down (the opposite effect to the flattened piece of wire) and raise the lift of the strike flirt. I know this appears counter intuitive but the flattened wire scenario appears to support this thought process IMHO. This is an area that you made previous adjustments so I would suggest giving this a try and see where it goes.

 

[disciple_dan]

Thanks for the help, Royce. I have opened and closed that notch so many times I'm afraid metal fatigue is next.
Yes, when I open it, the foot of the primary lift shifts CW and doesn't engage the center lobes. When I close it, the foot is back to good but then it doesn't engage the strike release. It's a no-win scenario.
I've created another job for myself now. I hate to even admit it. I was sure that filing the chime stop lever down some would cause it to lift the chime stop out of the notch, and it did on the first, second, and third quarters. However, on the hour, it now trips the strike and it makes its run before the chime. Now, I'm going to have to make a new chime stop lever to (back to) the proper length. Then, I'm right back to where I started and still have to figure out what is causing it to not have enough lift.
I know, you don't have to say it. I know!
Well, thanks for all the great advice and comments. It will probably be a while before I can get back to this project but I will post here when I do to let you all know how it's going.
Be blessed, Danny

 

[shutterbug]

It may be that the little lift star is just worn down too much. You could try pulling the point(s) out a bit, or adding a little metal to the underside of the lever temporarily to test it. My internet is too slow today to play your video.

 

[wow]

Dan, if you give up on it, send it to me and I’ll get it going for you. I would have to have it in front of me to do it. No charge. Just pay shipping. Send a PM if interested.
Will

 

[David S]

Hi Dan

In response to your PM to me this morning. I do not have an pics of the strike part of this movement. That was quite a while ago.

David S

 

[disciple_dan]

Dan, if you give up on i

Will, I never give up! What kind of repairman gives up? I made a boob but that's just a setback. The clock is mine so there's no time frame I need to meet. I'll just step back for a while and cool off. I appreciate the offer, that's very kind of you. I'll be posting on that same tread when I get the part fabricated. I'm still going to have to figure out what it needs to get that to lift.
See you soon, Danny

 

[wow]

Will, I never give up! What kind of repairman gives up? I made a boob but that's just a setback. The clock is mine so there's no time frame I need to meet. I'll just step back for a while and cool off. I appreciate the offer, that's very kind of you. I'll be posting on that same tread when I get the part fabricated. I'm still going to have to figure out what it needs to get that to lift.
See you soon, Danny

I wish we lived closer together. I would enjoy seeing your movement live. I don’t blame you for not giving up. I understand because I’m the same way. I can’t stand to let one beat me. I like the challenge. Keep us informed of your progress.

 

[shutterbug]

I was able to watch the video this morning. I believe there is more than one issue. First, that top lever is not functioning correctly. It should not stay up when you raise it. Also, it seems to be the problem on the rise. Just for curiosity, put your flattened wire between the top lever (the one that unlocks the chime) and the lever being lifted by the star. See what that does.
The other issue I see is that the the little tap that falls into the chime wheel slots probably should not be what's stopping the chime train. Also, it seems unlikely that the movement of the train should be possible while that is in the slot. I'm thinking there's another pin that should stop the train, and it might be broken off or something. That tab also is flexible. I have never seen anything like that. It's a very strange movement.
Can you change the height of that tab? Adjustable at the top end? It just seems pretty long for what its function is.

 

[disciple_dan]

Yeah, I wish we lived closer also. I have no one like-minded that I can get local help from. I have one friend that loves clocks and does a little collecting but has no interest in fixing them.
No, I'm not giving up, Will. I just have to get to work on a couple of clocks that I can put up for sale so I can continue to buy and sell these functional pieces of art.
God bless, Danny.

 

[shutterbug]

I also note in your pictures above that the end of that tab is slanted the wrong way. Could it have been flipped over somehow?

 

[disciple_dan]

Shutterbug, thanks for the help. I need it.

First, that top lever is not functioning correctly. It should not stay up when you raise it.

It doesn't do that under power when everything is in motion. It's pressed between the chime stop lever and the pin that lifts the lever that catches the stop pin to stop the chime.
That pin that the chime stop lever pushes up at the end of the chime cams run is what actually stops the chime train. When the notch for the next quarter comes up the chime stop lever drops in and begins to move forward. As it travels it contacts the pin that is protruding the front plate. (On any pic or the vid. you should be able to see it.) As the lever moves forward it pushes that pin, up, lifting a lever that's between the plates and catching the stop pin on the wheel and the chime train is halted. I hope that answers

I'm thinking there's another pin that should stop the train,

I really appreciate the help. I'm putting that clock to the side for a time but I'll get back to it soon. I'll be looking for help then.
Thanks again, Danny

 

[disciple_dan]

 

[shutterbug]

It looks like you got it sorted out. I didn't see any issues in that run. Strange chime stop on it. I haven't encountered that one as far as I can remember.

 

[disciple_dan]

Yes, It took a lot of trial and error to get it back to good. I learned a lot about clocks on this one but I think I learned more about myself. This is a great site and has helped me and countless others but I think most times I need to just look at the clock, what's it doing? What is it supposed to do? That's what lead me to the answer to this one. I'm going to put more confidence in my own abilities.
I'll try to come up with a short explanation of the solution and post it soon. Have a great day!
Thanks for all the support, Danny

 

[wow]

This is a great site, Dan. Good to see you back!

 

[Royce]

Congrats Danny!! Your perseverance paid off. I fully agree with your experience take away.
Definitely a great site with many knowledgeable people willing to help.

 

[disciple_dan]

This is a great site, Dan. Good to see you back!

Thanks, Will. I wasn't gone just keeping quiet. I'm going to do a lot more listening and looking from now on. I'll learn more that way and maybe not annoy some folks.

Your perseverance paid off.

Thanks, Royce. You are one of those people!
God bless you all, have a great day, Danny