• The NAWCC Museum and Library & Research Center will reopen starting Wednesday, January 6, 2021 as per Governor Wolf's reopening mandate.

Standard Electric Standard electric master with bad motor, conversion to self winding?

pianoman

Registered User
Nov 19, 2006
68
0
6
Country
Region
Hi all, need some advice here. I have a fairly basic Standard Electric master clock, assembled in 1946, which came with a GE synchronous electric motor that drives the clock works. I have since discovered that the motor is on its way out as it runs really hot and sounds "imbalanced", even after cleaning everything I can access without actually disassembling the rotor/stator. The motor runs at 1 RPM and uses a very specific gear on the output shaft, which appears to be pressed-on.

I'm at a sort of crossroads with this project. I like the clock, but to be honest I paid too much for what I received in the first place, and I'm not particularly enthusiastic about experimenting with different motors, attempting to get the gear off the old motor, and trying to come up with some sort of adapter plate to fit the new motor onto the existing clock works. I was considering the possibilities of converting to a pendulum-driven movement (i.e. self-winding), even though I really don't know all that much about them. I found one on eBay but it's quite expensive, and while it may indeed be worth the asking price, it's simply not worth it to me. At the same time, I believe I would have a tough time even making a fraction of the $350 or $400 (I'm trying to forget) I paid for this clock by selling the parts individually.

I'd appreciate your thoughts and advice on where to go next with this. Ultimately I wanted this style clock, but with a mechanical movement, but I got too excited and purchased before I realized what I had actually purchased. I'm willing to try another motor, but I really don't know if I can even find a modern motor with the appropriate torque and output shaft diameter, or get the output gear off the old motor in the first place.

20-08-11 18-01-37 1671.jpg 20-08-10 10-27-16 1665.jpg 20-08-10 07-37-06 1662.jpg 20-08-09 21-36-44 1661.jpg 20-08-09 21-36-30 1660.jpg
 

ibm clock

Registered User
Sep 5, 2005
241
1
18
first off, what you have there is just a bell timer. it has the usual Standard tape driven program device. the brass drum toward the bottom of the movement is the top bearing for the tape. i dont think you can convert this to a minute wind device, becasue you need a mainspring, some kind of lever device to wind the spring, a pendulum, etc. your clock is syncronous driven. your only choice is to either adapt a new motor, or see if someone can rebuild the motor. Have you tried to add some oil to it? I see some exposed shafts. you can probably use the Telechron rotor rejuvenation method to get some oil into the movement by the output shaft. it involves some low, slow heating, then adding oil around the output shaft. the oil is then drawn into the motor. Telechron Rotor Rejuvenation
 

pianoman

Registered User
Nov 19, 2006
68
0
6
Country
Region
first off, what you have there is just a bell timer. it has the usual Standard tape driven program device. the brass drum toward the bottom of the movement is the top bearing for the tape. i dont think you can convert this to a minute wind device, becasue you need a mainspring, some kind of lever device to wind the spring, a pendulum, etc. your clock is syncronous driven. your only choice is to either adapt a new motor, or see if someone can rebuild the motor. Have you tried to add some oil to it? I see some exposed shafts. you can probably use the Telechron rotor rejuvenation method to get some oil into the movement by the output shaft. it involves some low, slow heating, then adding oil around the output shaft. the oil is then drawn into the motor. Telechron Rotor Rejuvenation
The more I looked at pictures, the more I realized mechanical conversion wouldn't be possible, as the clock works in this unit are mounted to the door, whereas in a typical mechanical clock the works are attached to the back of the case.

Here's a better picture of the motor with its gearbox removed, and a picture of the gearbox before I cleaned and lubricated it. I'll take a closer look at the motor itself and see if I can employ the Telechron methods. I also took a video of the noise the motor makes in case that helps in the diagnosis:


20-08-11 18-02-13 1672.jpg 20-08-11 18-10-13 1674.jpg

Also I should note I replaced the motor run capacitor shown in the picture as well, as the original was took weak to keep the motor running more than a few minutes.
 

Tim Orr

National Membership Chair
Director
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sep 27, 2008
1,385
234
63
Boulder CO
Country
Region
Good afternoon, Pianoman!

You may also find some useful help on the NAWCC VIMEO page: NAWCC

Ken Reindel created a presentation titled "A Tale of Two Motors" that you might want to watch.

Best regards!

Tim Orr
 

pianoman

Registered User
Nov 19, 2006
68
0
6
Country
Region
Good afternoon, Pianoman!

You may also find some useful help on the NAWCC VIMEO page: NAWCC

Ken Reindel created a presentation titled "A Tale of Two Motors" that you might want to watch.

Best regards!

Tim Orr
Thanks Tim! I checked out the video and it does give me some ideas, though I don't think this motor is constructed quite like either of the ones mentioned in the video. Too bad I moved away from Colorado, it seems like there's several of you guys out there that could help me out - I have a willingness to learn but especially when I have something that is "one of a kind" like this motor I'm quite concerned about ruining it through individual experimentation.
 

Tim Orr

National Membership Chair
Director
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Sep 27, 2008
1,385
234
63
Boulder CO
Country
Region
Good afternoon, Pianoman!

Ken is very much an expert on these kinds of things. He's done a lot of electric motors. The two in the presentation are the ones most often troublesome. You might want to contact him, through his website, kensclockclinic.com

Where in Ohio nowadays?

Best regards!

Tim
 

pianoman

Registered User
Nov 19, 2006
68
0
6
Country
Region
Good afternoon, Pianoman!

Ken is very much an expert on these kinds of things. He's done a lot of electric motors. The two in the presentation are the ones most often troublesome. You might want to contact him, through his website, kensclockclinic.com

Where in Ohio nowadays?

Best regards!

Tim
I'm in the Toledo Ohio metro area.

I'll reach out to Ken and see if he has thoughts.
 

ibm clock

Registered User
Sep 5, 2005
241
1
18
It amost seems the mechanical part can be easily serviced and rebushed if needed very easily and accessible. it seems perhaps the issue might be electrical.
 
Know Your NAWCC Forums Rules!
RULES & GUIDELINES

Find member

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
162,273
Messages
1,409,333
Members
83,986
Latest member
ccbaumanjr
Encyclopedia Pages
1,101
Total wiki contributions
2,854
Last edit
Waltham Watches by Clint Geller