ST 8 day OG strikes too fast

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Jasons34, Apr 16, 2017.

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  1. Jasons34

    Jasons34 Registered User

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    I just bought a Seth thomas 8 day ogee clock and after getting everything cleaned and oiled the clock runs perfectly but the strike is extremely fast and picks up speed as it runs. I checked the fly and it's not loose at all and I can move it with my finger having resistance on it as you should. What I did notice though is the weight for it might not be the correct heaviness. The weight is cylinder and I always thought they should be tapered as the move upwards. The weight is cylinder and tapered at the bottom but it looks like it was wrapped with something hard so it's no longer tapered. Not sure if that was done originally or afterwards. I can't take a picture of it right now but was wondering how many pounds it should be and also what exactly it should look like.
     
  2. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User
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    A lot of 8-dayOGs had rectangular weights around 7 to 8 lbs. Too heavy would explain the strike being fast but does not explain why it speeds up as it runs. I still suspect the fan is slipping too much.

    RC
     
  3. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    #3 Willie X, Apr 16, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
    You can increase the hammer lift and the spring tension a bit. But increasing the load doesn't make much sense on a weight driven clock. Better all around to simply decrease the weight.
    Have both weights been modified and have you weighed them?
    Note, most of these clocks do normally strike rather quickly and have a brief run up to the governed speed. How many seconds does it take your clock to strike 12:00?
    Willie X
     
  4. Jasons34

    Jasons34 Registered User

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    So your saying both weights are to be the box kind? The time one is but the strike one is like a single day but is much beefier. Both weights are the same diameter at the bottom and both taper like they should. But the strike one has like a solid sleeve of some sort that was wrapped around it (most likely to add weight) so now the overall thing is not tapered at all except for the bottom inch. I'll get a picture of the weight once it gets down low enough that I can remove it from the case. As for the time it takes for it to strike 12 times is 5-6 seconds
     
  5. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    #5 Willie X, Apr 16, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
    Jason,
    Doesn't matter to much what the weights look like, how much do they weigh? Also, how would you know for sure which weight went on the strike side? It would be more likely that someone modified/increased the time weight, in an attempt to make it run.
    The weight's top has to be tapered or channelled or the weight will rub the cord at the top and cause premature failure of the cord.
    Willie X
     
  6. Jasons34

    Jasons34 Registered User

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    Well maybe I have them backwards but when I bought the clock the boxy weight had written on it "right" so I kept that one on the time side. Also that weight is heavier. How many pounds should each weight be? Also I double checked the fly and it's not too loose. I have plenty enough resistance when I rotate it with my finger
     
  7. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User
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    #7 R. Croswell, Apr 16, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
    The 'boxy' rectangular weights usually have relief cast into the inner side to prevent interference with the cords. As stated earlier, typically around 8 lbs. There won't be a lot of difference between the two. OGs typically specify the lighter weight on the strike side but 'lighter' probably means 1/2 lb. or so.

    It is important that the hammer not be partly raised when the striking begins. That can be a bit tricky to adjust on these. If that is the case with this clock then someone may have added additional weight to help it start. That would also account for the slow startup after which the extra weight will drive the strike too fast. We really need to know the weight or the weights you are using.

    RC

    This is a picture of the weight on the time side of my 8-day OG - about 8 lbs.
    Merritt's part #CW-2 "for American 8-day shelf clocks, OG's....... 6.75 lbs.
    Its not usually that critical if the clock is adjusted properly and in good condition.
     
  8. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Jason,
    Another question, has the fly been modified? Not unusual to find one that has been replaced, or cut, or bent up. The fly should take up all, or nearly all, of the available space. In other words, the outer edges of the fly should pass the nearest arbor or post by maybe 1/16".
    Striking should be at or near 9 seconds for 12:00. Maybe RC could count the strike speed on the one he has. I don't have one like yours at present but I am working on a similar spring driven S-T. This one is a fast striker too. It strikes about like yours does @ ~6 seconds for 12:00. The cuatomer said that he was used to winding it twice a week and only winds it about half way to keep the strike slower.
    Willie X
     
  9. Jasons34

    Jasons34 Registered User

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    Willie. I also have an Ansonia mini ogee spring driven that is as fast as this but I heard they are fast strikers. My other 2 ogee are 30 he and much slower. As for the fly being modified that is a no. Even the wire that runs across to give the fly its resistance is not bent or shows signs of being messed with. The only thing that worries me is the weight. I'll take a picture of that tomorrow. Shouldn't the time and strike weights look the same but the strike be a tick lighter?
     
  10. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    They should look the same. As RC said, a small difference in weight won't make much difference. But, if they are different, might as well use the weight where needed, or where not needed in your case.
    Most shops have weights laying everywhere, just put on a 5 pounder and see what happens ...
    Willie X
     
  11. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User
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    Mine takes 13.2 seconds to strike 12 times.

    RC

    (Mine is a Jerome, not ST but basically the same design)
     
  12. Jasons34

    Jasons34 Registered User

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    So I finally got the weight down far enough that I could remove it. Here are 2 pictures of it on the scale.[​IMG][​IMG]
     
  13. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User
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    The weight is on the high side but not that unreasonable. What is the weight on the time side? You might try swapping the weights and see how it strikes.

    RC
     
  14. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    My recollection is that the OG's do tend to strike fast by design.
     
  15. Jasons34

    Jasons34 Registered User

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    RC I'll weigh the time one tonight and even swap them. But if you look at my first picture of the closer up shot you'll notice the weight is tapered going up about a third of the way and then it looks like someone went and wrapped it to add weight and then there is a cap on the top that meets up with that added part. I'm not sure if that was an after thought maybe to help the train along or if the weight belongs the way it is which I highly doubt. When looking at Merritts and timesavers they have weights in the 8lbs range and then at 6 3/4lbs range. So that has me confused at to which one goes where. Not only that but if I could shave away some of the weight is that even possible?
     
  16. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User
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    The important thing on the strike side, as stated earlier, is that you have enough weight to start the train moving before the hammer begins to raise. If the hammer starts to raise during the 'warning run' the normal weight may not start the strike. That's the first thing to check before playing with the weights. If the gears move a little before the hammer starts to raise you are good to go. Just put enough weight on the strike side so it doesn't strike like a machine gun. It is not unusual to find where the original weights have been lost and where someone has added weight to compensate to a clock that has other issues as a way to avoid repair and keep it going. 7 to 8 lbs. should be ok if everything else is in reasonable condition. Do let us know what the time side weight is when you get it off.

    RC
     
  17. Jasons34

    Jasons34 Registered User

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    So I removed the time weight and it weighs the same as the strike one. So are these supposed to weigh the exact same? Also is there anything I can do to the weight to make it lighter? As I mentioned before someone added to the weight so it's not tapered anymore. That "coating" is not solid on the one side cuz when you tap on it you can hear that it's loose. Also what kind of clock would use a weight of this size diameter at the base?
     
  18. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    I wouldn't think to much about what you have there but what you NEED. Back too putting on a 5# weight to see what happens. Heck you can make that clock strikes just about any way you want by changing the weight, hammer lift, and hammer spring tension.
    Willie X
     
  19. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User
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    I agree with Willie, I think you are overthinking this. The original weights were rough iron castings and 'exact' wasn't a concern. Typically one side may be a bit lighter but don't be concerned about that. As long as the weight cord doesn't rub the weight the shape is OK. God only knows what material was added, perhaps lead. "Lead wiping" was technique used by plumbers years ago. One way to test things is to get a soda (or adult beverage if you prefer) can, rig a wire 'bail' at the top and fill it with shot, nails, or whatever junk you have until you have about 5 lbs. for the strike side and keep adding until it strikes right. Then you will know what weight to shop for.

    RC
     
  20. Jasons34

    Jasons34 Registered User

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    My only concern is wear caused by too much weight. The speed of the strike only concerned me due to wear. It's like putting a chime weight on the strike side. It causes a speed up in the strike and could cause premature wear. If wear won't be an issue here than I'll let it be
     
  21. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User
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    The more the weight the more the wear. If you keep the weight at around 8 lbs. then I don't think you will have "excessive" wear but certainly a little more than if you could run it on 6 or 7 lbs. If it is striking "too fast" and the fan is OK then the weight has to be more than normal even if it is not what one would consider "excessive" from the wear standpoint. Do keep it properly oiled.

    RC
     
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