Spurious Patek Philippe Claim?

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Ethan Lipsig, Oct 11, 2019.

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  1. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
    NAWCC Gold Member

    Jan 8, 2006
    80% Retired Attorney
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    I maintain a C.H. Meylan pocket watch serial number database, Dropbox - C.H. Meylan Serial Number Database.doc - Simplify your life, in which I have classified all C.H. Meylan pocket watch movement types that I have seen.

    I recently saw a seller's claim that what I classify as a Type D2 C.H. Meylan movement actually is a Patek Philippe movement. The alleged Patek Philippe movement was a private label that only was signed by the retailer.

    The seller claimed that Patek Philippe's Caliber 17-170 was Type D2's predecessor and that Type D2 was, in turn, the predecessor of Patek Philippe's Caliber 12-400. Although the seller could identify two PP calibers, the seller did not identify the PP Caliber of the Type D2 he or she was selling. Type D2 Meylans are uncommon. They came in both ladies' and men's sizes.

    Although the seller did not say it, I interpreted his or her claim as possibly also asserting that both Meylan and PP both used Type D2 movements from the same third party source and that third party source also made Patek Philippe Calibers 17-170 and 12-400 movements or their ebauches.

    I am very skeptical of these claims. I would appreciate your views on them.

    Here are photos of the movements in question.

    C.H. Meylan Type D2 in my collection

    IMG_3504_edited.JPG IMG_6111_edited.JPG

    Patek Philippe Cal. 17-170


    Patek Philippe Cal. 12-400

  2. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 14, 2001
    Aerospace Engineer
    New Hampshire
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    It is hard to determine without a view of the dial plate since brdges are fairly easy to reshape and this is done often. One factor arguing in Ethan's favor is that the Pateks and Meylans are mirror reflections about the center bridge and this is not a bridge shape matter.

    The Meylan and Pateks are different calibres.
  3. John Cote

    John Cote Director
    Director NAWCC Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    Midwest USA
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    I am of the opinion, after speaking with several expert watchmakers at the recent Del Mar Regional about another "Patek looking" private label exactly like the one shown in the original post in this thread, that Ethan is exactly right and that the movement is not a Patek at all. A lot of people want these to be Pateks...wanting doesn't make it so.
    Ethan Lipsig likes this.

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