Split Wheel 1860's EN Welch

[steamer471]

I have an old Anglo clock with a Welch movement that has an old tooth repair on one of the second wheels. Looking at it I realized there were no missing teeth and wondered what was going on. When I looked closer at the wheel it is actually cracked around the circumference of the wheel and It goes through the wheel and even into the spoke. The crack/slit affects about a dozen teeth. I guess this was soldered on here to firm it up but the crack continued. Is this common? Is it even repairable? Tried to get a picture of the split but hard to do with just my cell.

 

[wow]

This is a method of tooth replacement used by some repairers. Just solder a piece of brass on the wheel and file new teeth. It needs to be removed and a dove tail repair done.

 

[steamer471]

I don't think I am getting the message quite across, there are no missing teeth and the piece soldered on the back just matches the teeth on the wheel. The rim is split like veneer peeling from a piece of furniture. It's like rot.

 

[Willie X]

That's just a section of an old wheel soldered onto the damaged wheel, a fairly common but not to pretty repair.

I don't see the "crack/split" in question.

Willie X

 

[steamer471]

I'll try to take a better picture today and post. It not a just a tooth repair.

 

[R. Croswell]

I've never seen a wheel split like this, but if the teeth are otherwise OK, the "sister section" isn't serving any purpose and should be removed. If I understand correctly, the original wheel split almost as it were two complete wheels bonded together. As far as running is concerned, the teeth on both "layers" should engage OK. I see the main concern being that the wheel may further "delaminate" over time.

As a repair, I would consider drilling several small holes around the rim of the wheel, chamfer the openings of the holes, and put a brass wire or rivet in each hole to squeeze the laminations together. You would need to file the rivets flush as may be needed to avoid interference with other parts.

RC

 

[Uhralt]

I've never seen a wheel split like this, but if the teeth are otherwise OK, the "sister section" isn't serving any purpose and should be removed. If I understand correctly, the original wheel split almost as it were two complete wheels bonded together. As far as running is concerned, the teeth on both "layers" should engage OK. I see the main concern being that the wheel may further "delaminate" over time.

As a repair, I would consider drilling several small holes around the rim of the wheel, chamfer the openings of the holes, and put a brass wire or rivet in each hole to squeeze the laminations together. You would need to file the rivets flush as may be needed to avoid interference with other parts.

RC

That sounds like a reasonable approach if the damage is like you suspected.

Uhralt

 

[steamer471]

I've never seen a wheel split like this, but if the teeth are otherwise OK, the "sister section" isn't serving any purpose and should be removed. If I understand correctly, the original wheel split almost as it were two complete wheels bonded together. As far as running is concerned, the teeth on both "layers" should engage OK. I see the main concern being that the wheel may further "delaminate" over time.

As a repair, I would consider drilling several small holes around the rim of the wheel, chamfer the openings of the holes, and put a brass wire or rivet in each hole to squeeze the laminations together. You would need to file the rivets flush as may be needed to avoid interference with other parts.

RC

That's a good Idea I wouldn't have thought of that. The more I look the more I suspect the crack is possibly a result of the repair. I tried to get some better Pictures. The crack seems to cover the length of about twenty teeth.

 

[R. Croswell]

The sister section is obviously a repair and should be removed. Not so sure about the crack, I rather suspect a defect in the brass rolling process used to make the sheet from which the gear was stamped.

 

[Willie X]

Oh, I see, in de last photo. De brass in de wheel has de laminated. Not that it was supposed to be laminated in the first place!

If you can post some photos and get your movement IDed, a good replacement wheel can be found. Or, a new wheel can be made.

Willie X

 

[steamer471]

Well thanks for all your advice guys and I think the easiest to replace the movement. Besides the wheel three lantern pinions need repair, crutch has been soldered and slips welded to the verge. I had an old Anglo I picked up with no head and the movement is almost an exact copy. Both clocks were headed for oblivion so hopefully I save one. One more question if I can, The mainspring I removed from one side has a rolled instead of riveted end, is rough to the touch and I can't even scratch it with a pick. Would this be an old Iron spring? Would it be safe to re-use?

 

[Willie X]

Yes, just open it up some and check the edges closely for cracks, using magnification. Lube them with grease or Keystone medium. Willie X

 

[steamer471]

Thanks Willie.

 

[shutterbug]

I have never seen a wheel split like that. Very weird.

 

[c.kugle]

I have an old Anglo clock with a Welch movement that has an old tooth repair on one of the second wheels. Looking at it I realized there were no missing teeth and wondered what was going on. When I looked closer at the wheel it is actually cracked around the circumference of the wheel and It goes through the wheel and even into the spoke. The crack/slit affects about a dozen teeth. I guess this was soldered on here to firm it up but the crack continued. Is this common? Is it even repairable? Tried to get a picture of the split but hard to do with just my cell. View attachment 690986 View attachment 690985

Striational fracturing is very uncommon in todays metal processes but QA/QC 150 years ago in metallurgy and finishing weather pressed, forged, or rolled. There are a few remedies like dovetail patch listed above to making a template of a good side of the wheel and braizing the cracked side to fill in and reenforce the fractured side then using your template file away the added metal remaking the teeth and uniform thickness.. Or just get a doner movement and swap gears..