• Member Voting Now through June 6. Check Your Email for a Link to the Online Ballot. The Ballot Contains Links to Each Proposed Amendment to Bylaws and Articles of Incorporation.

Split Wheel 1860's EN Welch

steamer471

NAWCC Member
Nov 2, 2013
745
164
43
57
Charlotte NC
Country
Region
I have an old Anglo clock with a Welch movement that has an old tooth repair on one of the second wheels. Looking at it I realized there were no missing teeth and wondered what was going on. When I looked closer at the wheel it is actually cracked around the circumference of the wheel and It goes through the wheel and even into the spoke. The crack/slit affects about a dozen teeth. I guess this was soldered on here to firm it up but the crack continued. Is this common? Is it even repairable? Tried to get a picture of the split but hard to do with just my cell. 20220118_162346.jpg 20220118_162023.jpg
 

wow

NAWCC Member
Jun 24, 2008
6,186
871
113
77
Pineville, La. (central La.)
Country
Region
This is a method of tooth replacement used by some repairers. Just solder a piece of brass on the wheel and file new teeth. It needs to be removed and a dove tail repair done.
 

steamer471

NAWCC Member
Nov 2, 2013
745
164
43
57
Charlotte NC
Country
Region
I don't think I am getting the message quite across, there are no missing teeth and the piece soldered on the back just matches the teeth on the wheel. The rim is split like veneer peeling from a piece of furniture. It's like rot.
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
16,257
2,480
113
That's just a section of an old wheel soldered onto the damaged wheel, a fairly common but not to pretty repair.

I don't see the "crack/split" in question.

Willie X
 

R. Croswell

Registered User
Apr 4, 2006
11,507
1,533
113
Trappe, Md.
www.greenfieldclockshop.com
Country
Region
I've never seen a wheel split like this, but if the teeth are otherwise OK, the "sister section" isn't serving any purpose and should be removed. If I understand correctly, the original wheel split almost as it were two complete wheels bonded together. As far as running is concerned, the teeth on both "layers" should engage OK. I see the main concern being that the wheel may further "delaminate" over time.

As a repair, I would consider drilling several small holes around the rim of the wheel, chamfer the openings of the holes, and put a brass wire or rivet in each hole to squeeze the laminations together. You would need to file the rivets flush as may be needed to avoid interference with other parts.

RC
 

Uhralt

NAWCC Member
Sep 4, 2008
5,467
788
113
Country
Region
I've never seen a wheel split like this, but if the teeth are otherwise OK, the "sister section" isn't serving any purpose and should be removed. If I understand correctly, the original wheel split almost as it were two complete wheels bonded together. As far as running is concerned, the teeth on both "layers" should engage OK. I see the main concern being that the wheel may further "delaminate" over time.

As a repair, I would consider drilling several small holes around the rim of the wheel, chamfer the openings of the holes, and put a brass wire or rivet in each hole to squeeze the laminations together. You would need to file the rivets flush as may be needed to avoid interference with other parts.

RC
That sounds like a reasonable approach if the damage is like you suspected.

Uhralt
 

steamer471

NAWCC Member
Nov 2, 2013
745
164
43
57
Charlotte NC
Country
Region
I've never seen a wheel split like this, but if the teeth are otherwise OK, the "sister section" isn't serving any purpose and should be removed. If I understand correctly, the original wheel split almost as it were two complete wheels bonded together. As far as running is concerned, the teeth on both "layers" should engage OK. I see the main concern being that the wheel may further "delaminate" over time.

As a repair, I would consider drilling several small holes around the rim of the wheel, chamfer the openings of the holes, and put a brass wire or rivet in each hole to squeeze the laminations together. You would need to file the rivets flush as may be needed to avoid interference with other parts.

RC
That's a good Idea I wouldn't have thought of that. The more I look the more I suspect the crack is possibly a result of the repair. I tried to get some better Pictures. The crack seems to cover the length of about twenty teeth. 20220119_133154.jpg 20220119_133036.jpg 20220119_133145.jpg
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
16,257
2,480
113
Oh, I see, in de last photo. De brass in de wheel has de laminated. Not that it was supposed to be laminated in the first place!

If you can post some photos and get your movement IDed, a good replacement wheel can be found. Or, a new wheel can be made.

Willie X
 

steamer471

NAWCC Member
Nov 2, 2013
745
164
43
57
Charlotte NC
Country
Region
Well thanks for all your advice guys and I think the easiest to replace the movement. Besides the wheel three lantern pinions need repair, crutch has been soldered and slips welded to the verge. I had an old Anglo I picked up with no head and the movement is almost an exact copy. Both clocks were headed for oblivion so hopefully I save one. One more question if I can, The mainspring I removed from one side has a rolled instead of riveted end, is rough to the touch and I can't even scratch it with a pick. Would this be an old Iron spring? Would it be safe to re-use?
20211229_121456.jpg 20220119_152757.jpg 20220101_151908.jpg
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
16,257
2,480
113
Yes, just open it up some and check the edges closely for cracks, using magnification. Lube them with grease or Keystone medium. Willie X
 

shutterbug

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
48,538
2,534
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
I have never seen a wheel split like that. Very weird.
 

c.kugle

Registered User
Jul 15, 2021
145
56
28
52
Country
I have an old Anglo clock with a Welch movement that has an old tooth repair on one of the second wheels. Looking at it I realized there were no missing teeth and wondered what was going on. When I looked closer at the wheel it is actually cracked around the circumference of the wheel and It goes through the wheel and even into the spoke. The crack/slit affects about a dozen teeth. I guess this was soldered on here to firm it up but the crack continued. Is this common? Is it even repairable? Tried to get a picture of the split but hard to do with just my cell. View attachment 690986 View attachment 690985
Striational fracturing is very uncommon in todays metal processes but QA/QC 150 years ago in metallurgy and finishing weather pressed, forged, or rolled. There are a few remedies like dovetail patch listed above to making a template of a good side of the wheel and braizing the cracked side to fill in and reenforce the fractured side then using your template file away the added metal remaking the teeth and uniform thickness.. Or just get a doner movement and swap gears..
 

Forum statistics

Threads
173,673
Messages
1,516,537
Members
51,879
Latest member
Nauman
Encyclopedia Pages
1,062
Total wiki contributions
2,969
Last update
-