Source for Small Diameter Spring Winder Sleeves

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by KurtinSA, May 30, 2019.

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  1. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    I was starting to take apart a small Kern miniature clock, a four-glass carriage clock I guess you'd call it. I got to the point of holding the spring barrel in my hand and felt I'd better check the sleeves for my spring winder. I've got the standard Ollie Baker set, the smallest sleeve being 1" or 25mm in outside diameter (actually it's like 25.4mm). Immediately I could see that my sleeve wasn't going to fit inside the barrel. The repair guide calls for a 12x25 spring...ie, for a barrel 25mm in diameter. Since I don't have a sleeve for it, I put the clock back together and up on the shelf for another time.

    I checked Timesavers and only see 1" as the smallest offered. What are my options for getting a sleeve that's going to work? I suspect it will have to be something like 22-23mm in outside diameter.

    Kurt
     
  2. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Oct 25, 2010
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    Copper pipe/fittings come in smaller sizes.

    Eric
     
  3. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    Hmmm...I figured someone would point out things like that. That would seriously challenge my metal skills! :whistle:

    Kurt
     
  4. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    I recall I did this with hand tools:
    sleeve.jpg

    Copper will deform from use. I haven't had one fail, yet.

    Eric
     
  5. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    I browsed the plumbing section at the local big box store. Best I could find was a 3/4" coupler (inside diameter actually 0.88") which results in an OD of 24.4mm. I don't know if that's going to be small enough assuming the barrel in question was a true 25mm...it's back in the clock. One has to allow for the tail of the spring to wrap around a bit of the sleeve so it gets pinched between the sleeve and inside of the barrel. I've been a situation where, if that's too tight, it's difficult to get the sleeve in/out.

    Thoughts?

    Kurt
     
  6. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    The next size down would then be the 3/4" copper pipe. That should be around 22mm OD. It should be seamless (which is ASTM-B88). There probably isn't a worker at any of those stores who can confirm that, and the pipe isn't marked as such, but if you can't find a seam it's probably OK. You can normally find types L or M at the big box stores. Type L has a thicker wall (0.045" for 3/4").

    Eric
     
  7. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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  8. Harry Hopkins

    Harry Hopkins Registered User
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    Nov 16, 2011
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    You can find seamless brass and copper tubing here... you will find many OD and ID specs to fit your needs. They will cut down to as small of a length as you need if you click on the 'Custom Cut' button but shipping usually seems high.The big plus here is that if you can't find what you need elsewhere you can get exactly the size you need here. They also have stainless tubing but I have not looked closely enough to see if they have it as large as you need.
     
  9. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    Thanks, Harry. I poked around a bit. I dialed up copper round tube but all I could see is OD of 0.75". I think that's going to be small of an ID to handle the wound up spring. At any rate, I'll do some more checking. I have time on this...the clock is not at the front of the queue but it would be nice to be able to handle things like this.

    Kurt
     
  10. mauleg

    mauleg Registered User
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    Perhaps a hole saw; cut off the end with the teeth and cut the slot...
     
  11. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

    Jun 24, 2011
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    If your winder can go small enough, just crank the spring down on the arbor and wire it in the compressed state.
    Then just slide it into the barrel while the barrel slips the wire off.
    Don't compress it all the way or the shock from fast expansion can damage the barrel.
    (Less likely on this clock than the bigger ones, but no need to take chances.)
    Just get it down to the size needed to fit in the barrel and clear the nib.
     
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  12. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    I first have to get the current spring out of the barrel...that's my issue.

    Kurt
     
  13. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    I found some electrical metal tubing (EMT) that is about 23.7mm OD with almost 21mm ID. It's steel so that's a positive. I'm hoping with the 1.5-ish difference between the spring barrel and this tubing, that should provide enough clearance to capture the spring.

    When I get time, I'll cut out a sleeve. I bought 5 feet of tubing, so I have plenty of room for mistakes!

    Kurt
     
  14. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    Finally got around to making the slightly smaller sleeve. It's on the left...the one on the right is the smallest one that comes with the standard set...1.0" I believe.

    I hope to get a chance to use it soon.

    Kurt

    Sleeves.jpg
     
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  15. tracerjack

    tracerjack Registered User
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    Jun 6, 2016
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    Nice job. The 25 mm barrel must be the smallest listed in the guide book. Let us know how it works out.
     
  16. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Worked like a charm! The sleeve barely fits over the drive hub on the right side of the Ollie Baker, but it fits and worked great.

    Kurt
     
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  17. tracerjack

    tracerjack Registered User
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    Faced with the same dilemma, and not wanting 10 feet of conduit, I chose a 3/4 copper coupling sleeve. I should have gone with the conduit elbow, but it was a whole dollar more more than the copper sleeve! in hindsight I might have been penny wise and pound foolish. I had taken the barrel with me and thought the sleeve a good fit. But, once I cut the slot, while it did fit inside, it didn’t fit well. Not wanting another trip to town, I worked with what I had. With the traditional slot size, I couldn’t release the spring from the pin. Widened the slot and positioned it so the pin was centered in the slot. Then it came out easily. The spring is so small, I had to wire a loop on the end to reach the longest hook on my spring winder, but it worked. Spring was super clean, but dry as a bone, so worth all the effort to get it out.
     
  18. kologha

    kologha Registered User

    Dec 11, 2011
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    Copper is easily worked to a smaller diameter by tapping it into a smaller diameter hole in a pipe or whatever, or expanded by forcing a slightly larger shaft into it, I have done that when I could not find a suitably sized thin pipe. Here in SA where it is extremely difficult to buy suitable stuff locally and astronomically expensive to import, I have made spring winder sleeves from copper tube as well as from plain sheet metel which I wound around a wooden shaft, clamped and then drilled about 6 x 3mm diameter holes along the two overlapping edges which I then rivetted with ordinary galvanised wire (plenty of that here). Worked like a charm!
     
  19. Wayne A

    Wayne A Registered User

    Sep 24, 2019
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    I just ran into this same issue. Kern midget plate 1340F with the smallest mainspring I have yet to come across and the sleeve set I have stops at 1" which is too large. Looks like its time to head out the the Depot for some EMT.
     

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