Some help/info on this Waltham pocket watch

[BradHart]

Hello there - I am a fledgling watch enthusiast, but only with wrist watches. This is my great grandfather's Waltham pocket watch. I've been looking around a bit on the internet... and haven't seen THAT many versions with the 24 hour markings on the face, as opposed to the 60 minutes around the indices. I'd love to know any info people on the forum might have about this model! The model/movement marking is 16044156...

Thanks for any feedback on it!

 

[musicguy]

Welcome to the American Pocket Watch forum of the NAWCC!



Rob

 

[musicguy]

Here is some basic info on your great-grandfathers Waltham.
Waltham Pocket Watch: Serial Number 16044156 (Grade P.S. Bartlett) (pocketwatchdatabase.com)


The dial is not that uncommon, many watches from Canada
have the 24 hour markings.




Rob

 

[Kent]

I'd love to know any info people on the forum might have about this model!

Hi BradHart:

Your great grandfather's watch is a nice heirloom!

Please excuse me if I repeat some of what you already know, it's easier for me this way. Checking the references listed in the Waltham Watches Encyclopedia article (and seeing your pictures), Waltham movement serial number 16,044,156 can be seen to be
an 18-size,
model 1883,
P.S. Bartlett grade,
Adjusted to temperature,
open-face gilt (gilded) movement,
having 17 jewels,
and a Patent starwheel Regulator.
The movement is fitted with a double-sunk, Arabic dial with an inner ring of 13-24 hour figures. This is a common dial fitted to watches sold in Canada, see 1904 T.Eaton catalog page, below.
It was built in about 190, give or take a year or so. This was a popular movement of which well over 230,000 of this variation were made from about 1894 to 1920.
You can see a catalog description of the P.S. Bartlett gilded movement at the bottom of pade 7 of the Goldsmiths Stock Company Price List For the Trade Only - 1906-7 (below).

If you tell us the markings stamped inside the back of the Watch Case (or post a picture of them), we may be able to tell you something about it. You can ignore any "hand-scratched" characters, they're probably Watch Repairers' Marks.

Unless you know that it has been properly cleaned and oiled within the last few years, you should have the watch serviced before running it very much. It may be helpful for you to read the Encyclopedia article on Watch Service and its related links, especially the one to the message board thread on the subject. The Encyclopedia article on Choosing a Pocket Watch Repair Person may be useful as well.

Having gathered and printed out information about a family watch, it is a wise idea to write out as much as you know about the family member to whom the watch originally belonged - or as far back as you can go, including (and clearly identifying) what you can guess. Then, add the names and relationships of the family members who passed it down to the current holder. Make up a booklet with this and all of the watch information and try to keep it with the watch. You might even include a CD or, better yet, a USB thumb drive with copies of the pictures or information, in addition to the printouts. Even though they may not be readable 100 years from now, some more recent descendent may transfer the files to the then current format and media. This way, the watch has real family heritage instead of it just being an old family watch, the identity and relationship of the original owner having been lost in the distant past.

Unfortunately, many of the links in our Encyclopedia articles were disrupted when we changed to the current version of our Message Board and its been a long process getting them all reinstated. So, if you come across a broken link, please report it here.

Please feel free to ask about anything that isn't clear to you.

Good luck,

 

[BradHart]

Hi BradHart:

Your great grandfather's watch is a nice heirloom!

Please excuse me if I repeat some of what you already know, it's easier for me this way. Checking the references listed in the Waltham Watches Encyclopedia article (and seeing your pictures), Waltham movement serial number 16,044,156 can be seen to be
an 18-size,
model 1883,
P.S. Bartlett grade,
Adjusted to temperature,
open-face gilt (gilded) movement,
having 17 jewels,
and a Patent starwheel Regulator.
The movement is fitted with a double-sunk, Arabic dial with an inner ring of 13-24 hour figures. This is a common dial fitted to watches sold in Canada, see 1904 T.Eaton catalog page, below.
It was built in about 190, give or take a year or so. This was a popular movement of which well over 230,000 of this variation were made from about 1894 to 1920.
You can see a catalog description of the P.S. Bartlett gilded movement at the bottom of pade 7 of the Goldsmiths Stock Company Price List For the Trade Only - 1906-7 (below).

If you tell us the markings stamped inside the back of the Watch Case (or post a picture of them), we may be able to tell you something about it. You can ignore any "hand-scratched" characters, they're probably Watch Repairers' Marks.

Unless you know that it has been properly cleaned and oiled within the last few years, you should have the watch serviced before running it very much. It may be helpful for you to read the Encyclopedia article on Watch Service and its related links, especially the one to the message board thread on the subject. The Encyclopedia article on Choosing a Pocket Watch Repair Person may be useful as well.

Having gathered and printed out information about a family watch, it is a wise idea to write out as much as you know about the family member to whom the watch originally belonged - or as far back as you can go, including (and clearly identifying) what you can guess. Then, add the names and relationships of the family members who passed it down to the current holder. Make up a booklet with this and all of the watch information and try to keep it with the watch. You might even include a CD or, better yet, a USB thumb drive with copies of the pictures or information, in addition to the printouts. Even though they may not be readable 100 years from now, some more recent descendent may transfer the files to the then current format and media. This way, the watch has real family heritage instead of it just being an old family watch, the identity and relationship of the original owner having been lost in the distant past.

Unfortunately, many of the links in our Encyclopedia articles were disrupted when we changed to the current version of our Message Board and its been a long process getting them all reinstated. So, if you come across a broken link, please report it here.

Please feel free to ask about anything that isn't clear to you.

Good luck,

View attachment 760391 View attachment 760396

Thank you all so much for the info! It indeed would be a Canadian watch, as I and my great grandfather are Canadians!

Is there an indication of what the case would be made out of? Is a a stainless steel coloured, or is it brass?

Thank you again!

 

[BradHart]

Also, I believe the inside of the caseback says "Fortune 3510" with a bird ingraving.

 

[Kent]

... the inside of the caseback says "Fortune" ...

Fortune grade cases were made by the American Watch Case Co., Toronto, Ontario, Canada. They were 10Kt gold filled cases. guaranteed not to wear through to the base metal for 20 years.



Your great grandfather's watch has seen some hard use! This was a good quality case. Many surviving examples for this era show only the slightest wear.

Be happy that you have a nice family heirloom. My father's watch, gifted to him WHEN HE WAS 13 in the mid-20s, was a cheap Swiss import, that ended up with my brother - his oldest son; dad was a very old world guy.

 

[BradHart]

Is there a particular reason that the Canadian variations tended to feature a 24hr scale on the watch?

 

[Alan Walker]

Is there a particular reason that the Canadian variations tended to feature a 24hr scale on the watch?

Yes. In the late 1880s or early 1890s, the Canadian railroads changed to 24 hour time. Railroad employees who were required to have a railroad standard watch had to have the 24 hour dial.

 

[BradHart]

Thank you - such cool info!

 

[BradHart]

Does that mean that the US railway system was still on 12hr time when Canada switched over?

 

[Kent]

Is there a particular reason that the Canadian variations tended to feature a 24hr scale on the watch?

As Alan posted; the Canadian Pacific switched to 24-hour time in 1886.

Does that mean that the US railway system was still on 12hr time when Canada switched over?

At least one U.S. railroad also did this but it didn't last.

 

[BradHart]

That is so interesting. I don't know why, but I guess given their bigger military, I just would have thought that what we now consider "military time", aka the 24hr scale, would have been an American innovation, not Canadian. Thanks for the info - it's fascinating to me.

 

[Kent]

That is so interesting. I don't know why, but I guess given their bigger military, I just would have thought that what we now consider "military time", aka the 24hr scale, would have been an American innovation, not Canadian. Thanks for the info - it's fascinating to me.

Actually. Canadian and U.S. Railroad Time Service Watch Rules are very, very similar, probably because they had to resolve the same issues. I find these rules interesting and even fascinating and I've spent over 50 years studying them.