So easy to miss sloppy pivots!

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by NEW65, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. NEW65

    NEW65 Registered User

    Nov 17, 2010
    1,174
    35
    48
    Male
    Deals in modern reproduction floor clocks.
    United Kingdom
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi folks.
    Just to share my experience today! It’s so easy to miss sloppy pivots!!
    I picked up an hermle 1151 and when I checked it out it looked to be in great condition as I only noticed 3 sloppy pivots that needed rebushing!
    However when I’d cleaned the movements up and did the only bushings that I thought it needed and reassembled and rechecked , I couldn’t believe how many more bushings this movement needed! It needed another 9 bushings!!! When I initially checked by rotating the chain wheels to and fro there appeared to be no play from these ‘hidden’ worn holes! It can be very deceiving! Just wanted to share
    Cheers
     
  2. wow

    wow Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 24, 2008
    4,059
    276
    83
    Male
    Retired Music Minister
    Pineville, La. (central La.)
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    New, you will find that rocking the #1 wheel in any train will show you slop in #2 and maybe # 3, but you will need to work your way up the train rocking each wheel to check the next one up from it. On spring driven movements, let down the springs all the way before checking.
     
  3. Snapper

    Snapper Registered User

    Nov 30, 2014
    287
    28
    28
    Lincolnshire, UK
    Country Flag:
  4. Altashot

    Altashot Registered User

    Oct 12, 2017
    159
    35
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Sometimes a dirty pivot hole will prevent the pivot from wiggling. Only once it is clean can you see how bad it is. When I see black goop in the oil well, I assume it needs a bushing and quote accordingly.

    M.
     
    Kevin W. likes this.
  5. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    3,289
    364
    83
    Male
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    What he said. Clean prior to deciding on bushing, though that slows things down. I generally have to reassemble each train individually after cleaning so I can watch for stealth pivots, and even that doesn't always catch them, says he who has just realized that his latest completed Hermle has unaddressed plated pivots, rats.
     
  6. NEW65

    NEW65 Registered User

    Nov 17, 2010
    1,174
    35
    48
    Male
    Deals in modern reproduction floor clocks.
    United Kingdom
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks chaps. I have noted what you all have said. I have always just wiggled the chain wheels but thanks WOW for the tip. In future I will ensure all has been cleaned before checking for wear next time!
    Now an update:
    I finished up fitting 12 bushings in this movement. It’s been running great since (for hours and hours) BUT (!) as I left my workshop late this evening it started playing quarter to the hour on Whittington and it suddenly slowed right down but painfully battled on to complete the 3x4! On inspection I couldn’t see anything obvious. I then moved the minute hand manually - the clock resumed full power for another 3 hours but then the same thing happened again, movement just slowed right down and stopped altogether. Turning the minute further did nothing, each quarter just clicked! So now I don’t really know what’s going on. Having spent hours of my time overhauling this movement which is supposed to be going out on Saturday as it’s a b’day gift (floor clock), I’m now wondering what to do next. I may have to abandon this one for now and check out another hermle 1151. I do have one but the centre arbor needs rebushing. I did manage to remove the star cam from the centre arbor though which was quite straightforward.
    Have to say that this job can be very frustrating at times. Left feeling quite disappointed
    Thanks again to you all.
     
  7. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    Likely cause ... one or more of those new bushings is too tight. Did you chamfer the inside edges of all the new bushings and round broach last thing. Willie X
     
    NEW65 likes this.
  8. POWERSTROKE

    POWERSTROKE Registered User

    Jan 11, 2011
    928
    65
    28
    How do you chamfer the inside edges? I’m getting my tools this week for bushing.
     
    NEW65 likes this.
  9. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    The best thing I know of is a Bergeon 4 mm chamfering tool, Merritt's part #P894.4. Use it alone, spin it with your fingers. Willie X
     
    NEW65 likes this.
  10. NEW65

    NEW65 Registered User

    Nov 17, 2010
    1,174
    35
    48
    Male
    Deals in modern reproduction floor clocks.
    United Kingdom
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks willie. Running late tonight , now 2:23am but having an early start in the hope of having a more successful day. I’ll check out what you mentioned but I did chamfer the inside edges but who knows maybe I missed one or worse still left a rough edge? I use a drill bit for brass to chamfer the edges (just spin it using fingers) but thanks for mentioning the Bergeon tool, I’ll check that out. Better get a few hours shut eye. Cheers mate
     
  11. wow

    wow Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 24, 2008
    4,059
    276
    83
    Male
    Retired Music Minister
    Pineville, La. (central La.)
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    New, after bushing a movement, try the flip/drop test on the pivots. Turn the movement flat (horizontal) and see if all the pivots fall to the plate in that direction. Then flip it over and see if they fall all the way to the other plate. They should. If they don’t, bushings on those pivots are too tight or crooked or not centered. A positive thing about bushing with a machine or Mill is that they insure that the bushing is straight.
    Hang in there, man. It will get better!
     
  12. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    43,206
    1,189
    113
    Male
    Self employed interpreter/clock repairer
    North Carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    It's unusual for a train to run good for several hours and then bog down and stop. I'd try pulling that barrel and the spring and checking the thickness to see if it has been replaced with the wrong one.
    You could also just switch it out with that other one you have.
     
  13. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    With that stoppage pattern, I would also be checking for a bad tooth, bent pivot, bent arbor, etc. It would likely be related to the 2nd or 3rd arbor. Willie X
     
    Bruce Alexander likes this.
  14. POWERSTROKE

    POWERSTROKE Registered User

    Jan 11, 2011
    928
    65
    28
    Would i be able to use this?
    5mm KWM Style Chamfering Cutter
     
  15. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    3,289
    364
    83
    Male
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I got a chamfering tool with my KWM set, but before that I just used a woodworker's countersink bit. The one I had came with a handle and originally cost two bucks. Worked fine, for woodworking tools don't seem to mind brass all that much. But any de-burring tool will work well. Doesn't have to be Swiss, a tool source I've been avoiding for a while now.
     
  16. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
    Sponsor NAWCC Brass Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    6,781
    597
    113
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Sure. It's made to work with the KWM handle. Does a fine job in the handle, but it usually works just fine by itself.
     
    NEW65 likes this.
  17. POWERSTROKE

    POWERSTROKE Registered User

    Jan 11, 2011
    928
    65
    28
    I was just unsure if the size would work with only certain size bushings....
     
  18. Old Rivers

    Old Rivers Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 4, 2016
    103
    11
    18
    North Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    For chamfering new bushings these tools work great:

    Countersink & Burnisher Set

    These tools look like a miniature pizza cutter and are quite sharp. Using a very light touch it does the job in a few seconds.

    Bill
     
  19. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    What Bruce said. You don't need a handle. A handle will encourage deeper cutting. Just enough to see (with magnification) is all you need, except maybe on large pivots (over 2mm or so). On these, after you cut the hole and press in the bushing, chuck up the chamfering tool and make a light cut. IOWs, the chamfer is very small but generally proportional to the pivot size. Willie X
     

Share This Page