Smiths Wall Pendulum Clock

timbo19

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Hi - I am trying to repair a Smiths pendulum wall clock for my daughter and son-in-law. About 3 years ago they had it totally overhauled at some considerable expense but recently it stopped working. I discovered that the suspension spring was broken and have purchased a new suspension as near as possible with the same dimensions but the clock will still not work. I have tested the main spring and, although I haven't taken the clock apart, it seems to have plenty of power. I took the pallet off and when the spring is wound a little the main train works well. However, when I re-assemble the pallet arm and suspension with the pendulum the clock will only tick for a few seconds. When I take the pendulum off then the clock ticks away at speed. Could it be that I have an incorrect suspension? - I obviously do not know what it would originally have had but maybe the previous repairers fitted a wrong suspension. Any thoughts, once again, greatly appreciated. The clock has obviously had some rough repairs in its history!!
Timbo 19
P3070875.JPG
 

tracerjack

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The first question is, “Did you get in ‘in beat’ and the clock still stopped? The movement most likely has a slip fit crutch which is easy to knock out of place when putting in suspension springs and rehanging the pendulum. You may have a second problem by having removed the pallet cock. If the holes in the pallet cock are elongated, you may have misaligned the pallets. If not elongated, then that is not your problem area. The new suspension spring would be unlikely to cause any problems with the running of the movement. They usually can only affect time keeping.
 
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timbo19

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The first question is, “Did you get in ‘in beat’ and the clock still stopped? The movement most likely has a slip fit crutch which is easy to knock out of place when putting in suspension springs and rehanging the pendulum. You may have a second problem by having removed the pallet cock. If the holes in the pallet cock are elongated, you may have misaligned the pallets. If not elongated, then that is not your problem area. The new suspension spring would be unlikely to cause any problems with the running of the movement. They usually can only affect time keeping.
Thanks tracerjack. I have carefully adjusted the pallet cock and now the clock is running smoothly on the bench. I will leave it running there for a few days and then hope I can replicate everything when I return it to its case. I suspect that part of the problem may have been that our daughter has moved house twice since the overhaul and the clock may well have had a knock at some point. Thanks again for your advice - I did not alter the crutch fit at all.
 

tracerjack

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Glad it is running again. Moving the clock almost always causes something to shift slightly. Once back in the case, you’ll again have to put it in beat of course, but it sounds like you are headed for a successful outcome.
 

timbo19

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Glad it is running again. Moving the clock almost always causes something to shift slightly. Once back in the case, you’ll again have to put it in beat of course, but it sounds like you are headed for a successful outcome.
Hi tracerjack - I have a bit of a conundrum with this clock - twice now I have had it running on my test bench for over a week each time and when I put it back in the case it just will not work on both occasions. I have tried adjusting the pallet cock very carefully but so far this has not worked. Could I be doing something very stupid when putting it back in its case - I have carefully measured the alignment and the beat is good. It baffles me - any ideas much appreciated. On the test bench the hands were attached and the chiming mechanism was working correctly.
Timbo
 

tracerjack

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Adjusting the pallet cock is for getting the best use of power. Once you accomplish that, putting the movement in the case has no bearing on its position. However, tight spacing when putting the movement back in the case can cause inadvertent movement of the crutch, which must then be adjusted for beat. If there isn’t enough physical room for simply moving the crutch, sometimes the verge must be held immobile to accomplish the adjustment. A photo of your case might help.
 

timbo19

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Thanks. Here is a photo of the case - once the mechanism is installed it is nigh impossible to alter anything. I have a feeling it is all to do with the pallet cock and the adjustment - it is very difficult to make slight adjustments as the elongated holes are very short and small movement makes a lot of difference. Maybe I just have to keep trying!!

Clock case.JPG
 

tracerjack

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As I said, once the pallet cock is set in the best position for verge placement, it would not need adjustment once inside the case. Only the crutch might need repositioning. One possibility is that the case has slightly warped. Once the screws are tightened down, it can torque the movement enough to stop it. Go back to getting good amplitude and over swing with the movement on the bench. When that is accomplished, if the movement won’t work in the case, the problem is with the case, not the movement.
 

timbo19

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As I said, once the pallet cock is set in the best position for verge placement, it would not need adjustment once inside the case. Only the crutch might need repositioning. One possibility is that the case has slightly warped. Once the screws are tightened down, it can torque the movement enough to stop it. Go back to getting good amplitude and over swing with the movement on the bench. When that is accomplished, if the movement won’t work in the case, the problem is with the case, not the movement.
Hi tracerjack - I may have found the problem and I should have realised it earlier. As I mentioned initially, I had to replace the pendulum spring but the one I found had slightly different dimensions. When I closely examined the pendulum rod and the crutch, I found the the crutch was now positioned towards the top of the cut-out in the pendulum rod. I have adjusted this so that it is positioned half-way in the cut-out. The clock is now working in its case again for nearly 2 days. I also took your advice about the case being possibly warped and only attached the mechanism with 4 screws instead of the original 8 screws thinking that with 8 screws the mechanism might get pulled out of 'true'. Hopefully it will continue working well and I can get it back to my daughter without disturbing it. Thanks again
 

tracerjack

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Yes, the foot of the crutch needs to be in the middle. Positioned as it was could easily stop the clock. Since you seem to have found the problem, if it runs well with the four screws, I would add back the other four, even if not tightened down firm. Locating proper screws is not easy, so you will want to keep them with the clock. Glad it is now working.
 

Mike Phelan

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These plates are thick enough not to cause them to warp when the movement is screwed to the case.

There are plenty of places over here, and probably likewise in USA, who will supply screws of any sort, so not a problem if you drop one and the Borrowers grab it.
 

timbo19

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Hi again - back with my Smith's Clock. It still keeps stopping but I have noticed that it seems to stop when it is going to chime. I have released the spring on the chime so that there is no tension on any of the chime movement and so far the clock has continued to work. Could there be part of the chime mechanism that is causing the clock to stop when the chime spring is wound? Any thoughts greatly appreciated
 

Simon Holt

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Could there be part of the chime mechanism that is causing the clock to stop when the chime spring is wound?
The short answer is yes - possibly. The strike train is always trying to turn, but is prevented from doing so because one of the wheels is being held in position by a lever. The time train will try to lift that lever but the tension in the strike train will result in some resistance to the lifting of that lever. This resistance may be more than it should be (due to wear, roughness, burring at the pint of contact etc.), but if none of that applies then the time train simply does not have enough power to overcome the resistance, and needs work (cleaning, bushings, checking for end-shake etc. etc.)

Simon
 

Mike Phelan

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Chime? Does it stop just before it's about to strike or when it starts to strike?

How adept are you about clock repairs? It might just be congealed oil and muck.

Let both springs down then start by removing all the lever work on the front plate. Motion work, levers but not the gathering pallet. Clean all the parts and replace then you will probably get it all working OK.

Come back to us if you need more assistance. :)
 

timbo19

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Thanks Simon and Phelan. I am taking all the levers off and will give them a good clean and put them back. As far as I can tell, there is not a particular pattern as to when it stops. I am pretty sure it is not congealed oil and muck - my son-in-law had it professionally cleaned about 3 years ago but not sure how good a job they did. If I don't have success by just cleaning the levers I may dismantle it all and give it a thorough clean but I don't want to do this unless absolutely necessary.
Will let you know how it goes - probably in a few days time & thanks again. I guess the main spring could just be getting weak.
 

timbo19

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It's almost never the mainspring...

Keep at it, you'll get there, and help is always available here.

Simon
Thanks Simon - I have taken the levers off and wonder if you know if the pieces that catch should be at right angles to the lever main arm. Difficult to describe but in the photos, the end of one arm (the one that is cut at 45°) is not exactly at 90° to the arm. Would this cause the problem do you think?. I will polish the levers with very fine wet & dry paper to get them clean. Thanks Timbo
Clock 1.jpg
Clock 2.jpg
 

Simon Holt

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Hi Timbo

It's a bit difficult to tell from your pictures, but both pictures are of the same lever - right? That is the lifting lever, which is lifted at about 5 minutes before the strike to release the strike train into warning.

There are three places in which undue resistance may be encountered:

1. On the minute shaft, the cannon pinion has two lobes which act on the lifting lever to lift it:
WIN_20221002_16_20_50_Pro.jpg
2. The lifting lever pushes the rack hook up, to release the gathering pallet:
WIN_20221002_14_54_54_Pro.jpg
3. The strike train now runs but is almost immediately stopped by the lifting lever now being in the path of a pin on the the next wheel down from the fan (S4):
WIN_20221002_14_56_12_Pro.jpg
Over the next 5 minutes, the lifting lever continues to rise until it finally drops of the lobe on the canon pinion, at which point the strike train is released because the lever is no longer holding the pin on S4..

Any of those interactions could be robbing the time train of power. If there is no roughness, burrs or other impediment then the time train is lacking power and needs work (i.e. bushings and pivot polishing).

Simon
 

timbo19

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Hi Timbo

It's a bit difficult to tell from your pictures, but both pictures are of the same lever - right? That is the lifting lever, which is lifted at about 5 minutes before the strike to release the strike train into warning.

There are three places in which undue resistance may be encountered:

1. On the minute shaft, the cannon pinion has two lobes which act on the lifting lever to lift it:
View attachment 729382
2. The lifting lever pushes the rack hook up, to release the gathering pallet:
View attachment 729380
3. The strike train now runs but is almost immediately stopped by the lifting lever now being in the path of a pin on the the next wheel down from the fan (S4):
View attachment 729381
Over the next 5 minutes, the lifting lever continues to rise until it finally drops of the lobe on the canon pinion, at which point the strike train is released because the lever is no longer holding the pin on S4..

Any of those interactions could be robbing the time train of power. If there is no roughness, burrs or other impediment then the time train is lacking power and needs work (i.e. bushings and pivot polishing).

Simon
Thank you Simon, the clock is still going with the chime totally unwound. I will work through the chime train to try and find the problem - not immediately obvious from the disassembled levers but I will look at the other parts of the train as well and get there!
Timbo
 

timbo19

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Thank you Simon, the clock is still going with the chime totally unwound. I will work through the chime train to try and find the problem - not immediately obvious from the disassembled levers but I will look at the other parts of the train as well and get there!
Timbo
Hi Simon - I have now double cleaned the levers and the clock worked well on my bench. I have now put it back in its case and hung it on the wall - it is still going and chiming correctly so the problem may have been solved - thank you very much for all your advice.
As these things happen - get one repaired and another stops! I have my Great Grandfather's kitchen clock (Denham, London) which has been working well for the last 30 years or more, but it has now stopped. It is an 8 day clock with a fusée mechanism. It looks pretty dirty and I have never taken a fusée mechanism to pieces. Is there way I could quickly clean it without dismantling it or must I bite the bullet? It has obviously been repaired in the past and re-bushed. Any thoughts before I start would be appreciated.
Thanks again for your advice on the other clock
Timbo
 

JTD

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As these things happen - get one repaired and another stops! I have my Great Grandfather's kitchen clock (Denham, London) which has been working well for the last 30 years or more, but it has now stopped. It is an 8 day clock with a fusée mechanism. It looks pretty dirty and I have never taken a fusée mechanism to pieces. Is there way I could quickly clean it without dismantling it or must I bite the bullet? It has obviously been repaired in the past and re-bushed. Any thoughts before I start would be appreciated.
Thanks again for your advice on the other clock
Timbo

As this is a totally different clock, nothing to do with a Smiths Pendulum Wall Clock, it would be better to start a new thread with an appropriate title. Otherwise things will get very confusing.

JTD
 

Simon Holt

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Hi Timbo

I've only done 3 fusees so far, so I understand your nervousness. You must definitely take it apart to clean it properly.

Start by removing the anchor and crutch assembly so that the spring can unwind to the point where all of the gut, cable or chain is on the spring barrel. But keep a finger on the escape wheel while you remove the anchor to avoid damage to the escape wheel teeth once it is free to turn.

There will still be some tension in the spring, but not much, so you may be able to fully let the spring down using the key if you don't have a let-down tool.

After that, if you have any questions come back here - but start a new thread as its a different clock (JTD beat me to that)

Simon
 

timbo19

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Hi Timbo

I've only done 3 fusees so far, so I understand your nervousness. You must definitely take it apart to clean it properly.

Start by removing the anchor and crutch assembly so that the spring can unwind to the point where all of the gut, cable or chain is on the spring barrel. But keep a finger on the escape wheel while you remove the anchor to avoid damage to the escape wheel teeth once it is free to turn.

There will still be some tension in the spring, but not much, so you may be able to fully let the spring down using the key if you don't have a let-down tool.

After that, if you have any questions come back here - but start a new thread as its a different clock (JTD beat me to that)

Simon
Thanks JTD and Simon, I have started a new thread as you both suggested and thanks for you advice Simon
Timbo
 

timbo19

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Not good news on this clock. Three times I have reassembled the clock and hung it on the wall and it goes well and chimes but when I put the hands on it stops and then I can't even get it in beat again. There appears to be a problem with the minute hand when I gently tighten the thumb screw to hold it in place - there is considerable movement on the spindle between the hour and minute hands. I think the only thing to do is to take the whole clock to pieces, clean and inspect and then start again. Thanks for all your help but for a while I will concentrate on the fusée clock which is in pieces on my bench.
Timbo
 

Simon Holt

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Not good news on this clock. Three times I have reassembled the clock and hung it on the wall and it goes well and chimes but when I put the hands on it stops and then I can't even get it in beat again. There appears to be a problem with the minute hand when I gently tighten the thumb screw to hold it in place - there is considerable movement on the spindle between the hour and minute hands. I think the only thing to do is to take the whole clock to pieces, clean and inspect and then start again. Thanks for all your help but for a while I will concentrate on the fusée clock which is in pieces on my bench.
Timbo
Before you take the whole movement apart, concentrate on the motion works. Look particularly for the back of the minute hand rubbing against the hour pipe. Also check that the snail/hour wheel assembly cannot become disengaged with the minute wheel - in many Smiths movement, the washer on top of the minute wheel has to be the right way round to prevent this (if there is a groove pressed into the washer, the groove profile has to be down, not up:
1665491280930.png

(pre-cleaning, obvs...)

Simon

1665491000679.png
 
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timbo19

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Before you take the whole movement apart, concentrate on the motion works. Look particularly for the back of the minute hand rubbing against the hour pipe. Also check that the snail/hour wheel assembly cannot become disengaged with the minute wheel - in many Smiths movement, the washer on top of the minute wheel has to be the right way round to prevent this (if there is a groove pressed into the washer, the groove profile has to be down, not up:
View attachment 731065
(pre-cleaning, obvs...)

Simon

View attachment 731061
Thanks Simon. I have checked the minute hand and the hour barrel and there is a little space between them. The minute wheel washer grove seems to be the correct way up. Maybe I should take the snail, hour wheel and minute wheel off and see if the clock will work - would this help to identify the problem location? Thanks for being so patient.
 

Simon Holt

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Simon - forgot to attach photo.

View attachment 731098
I haven't encountered that washer style before but my instincts are that it is upside down. Question is - if you pull the hour wheel away from the plate, can you get it to disengage from the minute wheel? It may account for the clock stopping, because the rack tail may then land on the wrong part of the snail. That can result in the time train stalling as it approaches 1 o'clock because the rack tail can collide with the step between 12 and 1 on the snail.

You need to set the snail so that the rack tail lands in the centre of the 11 o'clock step on the snail as the rack drops.

Simon
 

timbo19

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I haven't encountered that washer style before but my instincts are that it is upside down. Question is - if you pull the hour wheel away from the plate, can you get it to disengage from the minute wheel? It may account for the clock stopping, because the rack tail may then land on the wrong part of the snail. That can result in the time train stalling as it approaches 1 o'clock because the rack tail can collide with the step between 12 and 1 on the snail.

You need to set the snail so that the rack tail lands in the centre of the 11 o'clock step on the snail as the rack drops.

Simon
Hi Simon - I can't pull the hour wheel away enough to disengage the minute wheel. Having taken the snail and minute hand off, I think the washer is correctly fitted - I have looked online at other Smiths mechanisms and they seem to be the same
I haven't encountered that washer style before but my instincts are that it is upside down. Question is - if you pull the hour wheel away from the plate, can you get it to disengage from the minute wheel? It may account for the clock stopping, because the rack tail may then land on the wrong part of the snail. That can result in the time train stalling as it approaches 1 o'clock because the rack tail can collide with the step between 12 and 1 on the snail.

You need to set the snail so that the rack tail lands in the centre of the 11 o'clock step on the snail as the rack drops.

Simon
Simon - I have turned the washer over but it has made no difference. I have set the rack tail to land in the centre of the 11 o'clock step but that has made no difference - I will try adjusting it a little more as the 11 o'clock step is very rounded. I will persevere -there must be something that I am doing incorrectly
Timbo.
 

Simon Holt

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Hi Simon - I can't pull the hour wheel away enough to disengage the minute wheel. Having taken the snail and minute hand off, I think the washer is correctly fitted - I have looked online at other Smiths mechanisms and they seem to be the same

Simon - I have turned the washer over but it has made no difference. I have set the rack tail to land in the centre of the 11 o'clock step but that has made no difference - I will try adjusting it a little more as the 11 o'clock step is very rounded. I will persevere -there must be something that I am doing incorrectly
Timbo.
It's going to be a process of elimination. Have you tried it with only the minute hand? Have you tried it without the snail?

Simon
 

timbo19

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It's going to be a process of elimination. Have you tried it with only the minute hand? Have you tried it without the snail?

Simon
Thanks. It has now been running for nearly 24 hrs without both the minute and hour hands. The snail and the hour wheel are one piece. I will leave it a little longer then try putting the hour hand back on and see if it will still work. Slowly but surely!!
 

timbo19

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Thanks. It has now been running for nearly 24 hrs without both the minute and hour hands. The snail and the hour wheel are one piece. I will leave it a little longer then try putting the hour hand back on and see if it will still work. Slowly but surely!!
Simon - I have now put both hands on and it has been running for nearly 24 hours. I will now put the face back on and set the time and see if we have a good result!!
 

timbo19

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This is going to be a battle - as soon as I put the face on and set the correct time, it stopped. I have put it back on my bench and notice that when it stops if I lift what I think is called the strike flirt it starts immediately. I will take a closer look at the gathering pallet to see if there is a problem there. It is strange as the problem doesn't appear to be consistant - maybe needs a better polish of the chime parts?
Timbo
 

timbo19

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This is going to be a battle - as soon as I put the face on and set the correct time, it stopped. I have put it back on my bench and notice that when it stops if I lift what I think is called the strike flirt it starts immediately. I will take a closer look at the gathering pallet to see if there is a problem there. It is strange as the problem doesn't appear to be consistant - maybe needs a better polish of the chime parts?
Timbo
This is going to be a battle - as soon as I put the face on and set the correct time, it stopped. I have put it back on my bench and notice that when it stops if I lift what I think is called the strike flirt it starts immediately. I will take a closer look at the gathering pallet to see if there is a problem there. It is strange as the problem doesn't appear to be consistant - maybe needs a better polish of the chime parts?
Timbo
Simon - I have found that what I have called the strike flirt gets caught on a part on the hour spindle and rotates and catches the end of the strike flirt - sorry but do not know the correct terminology for this part but you can see it in the photos. The end of the strike flirt is shaped at 45° but the whole of the end sometimes gets caught and stop the clock. I have polished the end but this hasn't helped. I cannot see why the end of the strike flirt is shaped at 45° - do you have any suggestions as to how to make sure it doesn't catch?
Timbo
Chime mechanism 2.jpg
Chime mechanism 2.jpg Chime mechanism 3.jpg
 

tracerjack

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The 45 angle is to prevent damage if the hands are turned counterclockwise. The angle allows it to slide past the straight edge of the center cam star arm if it is turned backwards. In your photos, the rack hasn’t been gathered. Does it gather properly, and does the rack hook fall into place properly when fully gathered?
 

Mike Phelan

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If what you're calling a flirt* is the warning lever, does it stop the clock when you lift it or just when it's in position? If the latter, does this just happen when it's a few minutes when the hour or half-hour approaches?

(* FYI, a flirt was used on early clocks that didn't have a warning.)
 
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timbo19

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The 45 angle is to prevent damage if the hands are turned counterclockwise. The angle allows it to slide past the straight edge of the center cam star arm if it is turned backwards. In your photos, the rack hasn’t been gathered. Does it gather properly, and does the rack hook fall into place properly when fully gathered?
Thanks for post. I had moved some of the chime levers so as to take the photo - I think it was gathering correctly. I will check again but now have to adjust the pallet cock again which is very tricky as the amount of available movement in the oval holes is very small. When I get this done I will confirm to you about the gathering and rack hook.
 

timbo19

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Thanks for post. I had moved some of the chime levers so as to take the photo - I think it was gathering correctly. I will check again but now have to adjust the pallet cock again which is very tricky as the amount of available movement in the oval holes is very small. When I get this done I will confirm to you about the gathering and rack hook.
Hello tracerjack - I have now adjusted the pallet cock and here is a photo of the clock having just struck 12.30. I think I may have a problem with the main time spring - it can be fully wound but occasionally it sounds as though it is slipping. As I mentioned much earlier in this thread, this clock had a major service by a professional about 4 years ago. I do not know exactly what they did and whether or not they cleaned and lubricated the springs - I have not dis-assembled the clock. Could the slipping noise be caused by a dirty and sticky time spring. Your thoughts would be appreciated. You will see from earlier in this thread that I have had some difficulty in getting this clock to work for any length of time and, while reading that often the problem isn't down to the main spring, I am wondering if in this case it might be. Thanks. Timbo

Claire Clock 1.jpg
 

tracerjack

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I had to read through this thread again because I wasn’t sure what was the problem with the movement. It seems the movement runs properly? but doesn’t continue running. It would help me if you could verify that it strikes the hour and half hour correctly, but won’t stay running. It would also help if you could video the movement running, post it to YouTube or the like and add the link. My suspicion is that the movement runs, but not well which is why it often stops. In your photo, the pendulum looks to be twisted slightly. Is there a kink in the suspension spring? As for the time mainspring, while a sticky mainspring can stop a movement, it is usually far down the list of possible causes. Does the slipping sound occur when winding the spring or when the movement is running?
 

timbo19

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I had to read through this thread again because I wasn’t sure what was the problem with the movement. It seems the movement runs properly? but doesn’t continue running. It would help me if you could verify that it strikes the hour and half hour correctly, but won’t stay running. It would also help if you could video the movement running, post it to YouTube or the like and add the link. My suspicion is that the movement runs, but not well which is why it often stops. In your photo, the pendulum looks to be twisted slightly. Is there a kink in the suspension spring? As for the time mainspring, while a sticky mainspring can stop a movement, it is usually far down the list of possible causes. Does the slipping sound occur when winding the spring or when the movement is running?
Thanks. It has been striking the hour and half hour correctly. The slipping sound comes when I wind the spring from when it is almost fully unwound - after about 5 or 6 turns it appears to be fine - maybe slipping on the arbor? The pendulum is twisted a little but not sure if the suspension spring has a kink but the pin going through the suspension spring appears to be at an angle. I will send a video as soon as I can get the clock going again - I think I have to adjust the pallet cock again as it will not now run for more than 6 or 8 ticks. As you said before adjusting the pallet cock is tricky.
 

timbo19

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Thanks. It has been striking the hour and half hour correctly. The slipping sound comes when I wind the spring from when it is almost fully unwound - after about 5 or 6 turns it appears to be fine - maybe slipping on the arbor? The pendulum is twisted a little but not sure if the suspension spring has a kink but the pin going through the suspension spring appears to be at an angle. I will send a video as soon as I can get the clock going again - I think I have to adjust the pallet cock again as it will not now run for more than 6 or 8 ticks. As you said before adjusting the pallet cock is tricky.
I meant to add that one of the things that makes adjusting the pallet cock difficult is that there is no power in the escape wheel unless I move the minute hand - it is therefore very difficult to judge the correct height of the pallets as when I stop moving the minute hand the escape wheel often stops!! As I mentioned earlier in the thread, often when I did get the clock working and then put the hands back on the clock would stop. Is it possible there is something wrong in the time train?
 

Simon Holt

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Mar 21, 2017
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I think it may be time to go back to basics; i.e. let down the springs, remove all levers, and the motion works. Remove the pallet cock and the pallet arbor/crutch assembly. Now check for endshake on each wheel in the time train. If you have endshake, start winding the time spring. How many turns before the time train starts running. Anything over 3 or 4 indicates that power is being lost. Then use a Sharpie to mark where each wheel stops. Repeat the partial wind, and see if any one wheel is in the exact same position when it stops.

Simon
 

tracerjack

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Shuffling sounds when winding a mainspring would be the coils sticking then releasing, not slippage on the arbor. If you are able to wind the mainspring fully, it is not slipping on the arbor. With slippage on the arbor, it is more a click sound then bang. Then whatever winding you did would have to start all over.

For pallet adjustment, power should always be available to the escape wheel, so your statement about not having power unless you move the minute hand is odd. Pallets are checked for adjustment by manually moving the crutch from side to side, not by moving the minute hand. At this point, Simon’s suggestion to go back to basics is a good one. But before you do, a video would be very helpful. With a video, many here can tell by just watching the video if the pallets are set properly, if there is good overswing, and even where you might be losing power. My suggestion is that since the movement is not a simple fix, it is time to get a book or video on clock repair. Once you know the ins and outs of how the movement works, finding the problem becomes easier.
 

timbo19

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Dec 28, 2019
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Shuffling sounds when winding a mainspring would be the coils sticking then releasing, not slippage on the arbor. If you are able to wind the mainspring fully, it is not slipping on the arbor. With slippage on the arbor, it is more a click sound then bang. Then whatever winding you did would have to start all over.

For pallet adjustment, power should always be available to the escape wheel, so your statement about not having power unless you move the minute hand is odd. Pallets are checked for adjustment by manually moving the crutch from side to side, not by moving the minute hand. At this point, Simon’s suggestion to go back to basics is a good one. But before you do, a video would be very helpful. With a video, many here can tell by just watching the video if the pallets are set properly, if there is good overswing, and even where you might be losing power. My suggestion is that since the movement is not a simple fix, it is time to get a book or video on clock repair. Once you know the ins and outs of how the movement works, finding the problem becomes easier.
Thanks for your comments - you can see a video on the link below - if you need another video let me know and I hope you can open it

I also attach a photo of the suspension

Suspension1.JPG
 

Kevin W.

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Apr 11, 2002
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You might not like what i have to say. When i work on a clock like yours, looks like its had a hard life, dirt and corrosion showing. I would strip it down completely and clean it. In this way you have a baseline to work from and you are not chasing your tail.
 

tracerjack

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For how long the pendulum unit is, the amplitude to me seems very shallow with minimal over-swing. I would expect something a bit stronger. I hope others who have far more experience than I will view the video and give their opinion. Wear is usually the culprit for a movement that stops, but in your case the movement was recently serviced. Assuming wear was corrected during the service, there should be amble power. Since you removed the pallet bridge, the problem may be there, that you are not getting the best out of the escapement. Often there are shadow marks of either the bridge placement or the marks from the screws as to where it was originally. Without an understanding of locks and drops, it boils down to fiddling until you get lucky. My method until I did understand.

One thing that concerns me is the pendulum unit. Ideally, the crutch foot should be in the center of the slot in the leader. But, that may simply be the angle of the photo. But, if that is the case, the suspension spring is too long. Also, just from curiosity, the pendulum split hook looks as if it has been spread open to fit the leader, but the photo is too blurry to tell for sure. It is an Enfield bob, so I would assume it is original, but I couldn’t find any on the internet with a split hook. They all had a pin or a solid hook. Most likely neither here nor there as to why the movement stops; I simply found it curious.
 

Kevin W.

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Apr 11, 2002
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Serviced has many meanings, from a duncan swish to taken apart and properly cleaned and serviced. This does not look recently serviced?
 

tracerjack

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Jun 6, 2016
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Serviced has many meanings, from a duncan swish to taken apart and properly cleaned and serviced. This does not look recently serviced?
"Recently" was 3 years ago according to the OP, but you are right that no one knows what was done in the 'service'. From the OP's first post, in recently stopped because of a broken suspension spring. So, there is a legitimate reason other than wear or lack of lubrication for the movement to have stopped working. If the replacement suspension spring is too long, there could be rubbing on the crutch foot, but the pictures and video are too dark to tell. If not that, the pallet bridge was removed, so the escapement may not be working well.
 
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