Smiths lantern clock loose floating balance & movement name?

[SPG]

Recently bought this lovely little clock.

Smiths appear to have used various movements in this clock. I can't see any identification on the movement itself. It would be useful to know what it is called for finding help with it.

I will try to upload a video of the escapement because the balance wheel - and this is the first balance wheel I have ever looked at - appears to be quite loose with no obvious way to adjust it. Perhaps it is normal? The wobble doesn't look "normal" to me, especially where it rests in the jewel (is that right?). The clock will stop randomly from a few minutes to several hours. Judging by the scratches on the back plate, the movement has been dismantled before.

 

[wingardclocks]

Good chance one of the pivots on the balance staff is broken or very badly worn.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Jack,

Good chance one of the pivots on the balance staff is broken or very badly worn.

Yes, you're right, the top pivot is clearly broken. Whether its jewel is also damaged isn't possible to say without dismantling it, but it could well be.

Regards,

Graham

 

[bkerr]

Agreed with above. Double check the lower picot and jewel as well.

 

[SPG]

Thank you very much for your diagnosis. I have removed the balance staff and photographed it best I can without removing the spring which I feel sure I won't be able to reattach. One pivot is clearly visible and looks ok? The other pivot can just about be seen through the spring and looks less finely pointed but smooth. Is that wear? Under my loupe the jewels look undamaged but I'm not sure I'd recognise wear. The rest of the movement looks good though I have almost zero experience. Back together and with just one turn of the key it bursts in to life.

 

[roughbarked]

Top pivot is worn off. Needs a new balance staff.

 

[jmclaugh]

The 'Nell Gwynne' case as it is called was introduced c 1940 with a new 8 day calotte movement which is the one you have, it was produced up until the early 1950s. The original calotte movement was introduced in 1934.

 

[gmorse]

Hi SirPecanGum,

Back together and with just one turn of the key it bursts in to life.

I don't recommend that you run this with a broken staff pivot as you may damage the jewel hole, adding to the potential cost of any repairs. It will need a general clean and overhaul anyway. If you need to find a competent repairer in the East Anglia area, have a look at the BHI list of qualified repairers on their website.

Regards,

Graham

 

[SPG]

Hi SirPecanGum,


I don't recommend that you run this with a broken staff pivot as you may damage the jewel hole, adding to the potential cost of any repairs. It will need a general clean and overhaul anyway. If you need to find a competent repairer in the East Anglia area, have a look at the BHI list of qualified repairers on their website.

Regards,

Graham

Thanks, I will unwind it while I decide what to do. I've looked at replacing the balance staff and I think it unlikely I could manage it nor do I have the funds to pay someone else to do it. I see many of these have been converted to quartz and there is ample room in the cabinet to store the failing original movement for the next owner to repair. It looks like an old weight driven novelty cuckoo clock movement I have will also fit in the cabinet...

 

[roughbarked]

The platform complete may be available via a donor movement if you can find one. I believe that these were used on a few different movements. I'm reasonably sure that I have staffs I hand made for this platform, so they weren't uncommon.

 

[gmorse]

Hi SirPecanGum,

I've looked at replacing the balance staff and I think it unlikely I could manage it nor do I have the funds to pay someone else to do it.

If you could acquire the correct staff, (see below), it would be a far cheaper job than having one made from scratch, even if it has to come from Australia.

I'm reasonably sure that I have staffs I hand made for this platform . . .

All you'd have to do is lay your hands on one!

Regards,

Graham

 

[roughbarked]

First of all, I'd have to find where I put them.

 

[SPG]

The platform complete may be available via a donor movement if you can find one. I believe that these were used on a few different movements. I'm reasonably sure that I have staffs I hand made for this platform, so they weren't uncommon.

This is what I was thinking. Knowing "Nell Gwynne" and "calotte" will help me find more information - I will look later. Thank you! There is a very helpful thread here: Smiths Clocks. Smiths English Clocks. Smith Group and his website is also helpful. All part of the fun! I will keep an eye on eBay to see if something turns up.

There is another model of this clock with a movement that appears similar, from the back, to a typical carriage clock movement. Would that be easier for an idiot to maintain

For example: Reproduction Brass Lantern Clock, 24.5cm high | eBay

 

[SPG]

First of all, I'd have to find where I put them.

Thanks very much, very kind of you, but, please don't. I'm sure something will turn up locally and there is no hurry or need to involve aircraft.

 

[gmorse]

Hi SirPecanGum,

similar, from the back, to a typical carriage clock movement

Most carriage clock movements will have a platform very similar to this, only probably more delicate, and rather closer to a large watch than yours, so there's no real advantage as regards ease of maintenance.

Regards,

Graham

 

[JTD]

Just a small point, this is not really a 'floating balance' - that is a different type of balance. Yours is a platform balance.

I only mention this so that you do not go looking for the wrong item; floating balances have a different construction.

JTD

 

[SPG]

Thank you, I appreciate the correction. I grew up with clocks ticking, have inherited some of them and from time to time buy another one because it doesn't work and needs looking after - something I obviously can't do but, I suppose, so long as I don't damage them they'll out live me to be maintained by someone who can. Hopefully.

This clock didn't work at all when I got it. With the help of this website I dismantled it (not the platform balance) and cleaned it. It started working on reassembly. The fragility of the platform balance is beyond me. The mainspring was slipping from the winding arbor. I curled the end a little with jewellery pliers and it seems to be ok now. I couldn't see any loose fragments in the spring barrel or a worn or rough edge to the hook but I've nothing to compare it with.

Hopefully, I will find a replacement platform balance in time!