value Smiths Enfield Westminster chiming granddaughter clock

[John Greatorex]

Hello again. I have a Smiths Enfield Westminster chiming clock. I have cleaned it and restored it and it is working perfectly but for one thing. The Westminster chime won’t restore itself when it gets out of sequence. I have studied and studied the mechanism and I can’t seem to see how it works. I can get to reset with a lot of jiggling around with the hands but it is very hit and miss. Has anyone else had this problem and does anyone know how to fix it. Thank you. John Greatorex

 

[Ken X]

Hi John,

I have a couple of similar Smiths Enfield K3 mechanisms which look to have a similar auto-correct system so hopefully I can assist a bit. Its not the best system but mine seem to work at the moment. Apologies for any incorrect naming of parts. I have inserted a photo below of the relevant area.

The count wheel rotates when the chime train is activated. The shortest cam duration being the quarter past chime and the cam with the high lobe being the hour.

As the count wheel chimes the three quarter and rotates during the chime run, a pin on the rear of the count wheel pushes the 90 degree lever down dragging a rod at the other end of the lever to the left. This is behind the long lever with the pin which follows the count wheel cams.
If you look between the plates you will see this rod and note that it has a cutout facing to the right of the clock.

Above this rod, to the right, is an arbor carrying a lever which terminates in a hook sitting over a cam. This lever has a bottom finger which rests on the rod above the cutout.
When the rod is dragged to the left, the hooked lever bottom plate is released by the cutout and the hook drops onto the cam. This only happens when the count wheel is coming up to the hour. At all other times the correction lever and hook are held up out of the way by the rod with the cutout.

This is the difficult bit to describe.

Behind the snail cam, on the minute arbor, is a star cam with four lobes, three identical and one taller one. The taller one is the hour lobe and should be in line with the minute hand.

If the clock is timed correctly, the taller lobe lifts (via a small lever) the chime warning lever and long lever up and releases the chime mechanism locking hook allowing the train to run until the warning pin, (which extends to the rear of the wheel as well as the front) contacts the correction lever hook which is resting in its cam notch. It then continues to lift (being higher), and a rod on the side of the chime locking hook (pointing forward under the correction lever) lifts the correction lever and hook up, releasing the warning pin rear extension to allow the warning pin front part to sit on the chime warning lever. At the same time, the higher lift causes the long lever to release the strike locking hook putting the strike into warning. When the tall lobe releases and all the levers drop, the chime runs followed by the strike.

If, however, the count wheel is at the hour position as above, but the star cam is on one of the three small lobes, when the chime locking lever is released and the warning pin rear extension contacts the correction lever hook, the smaller star cam lobe stops lifting and the chime mechanism is effectively locked. It will remain locked until the taller of the star cam lobes arrives at the hour and releases the chime (and therafter the strike) mechanism to run normally.

I hope this is of help and that I have got it right. If not, I am sure others will assist. I find that watching the levers carefully as the clock operates and stopping the clock operation to look from different directions helps make it clear. Holding a fly gently will prevent the chime or strike running if need be.

Good luck. Ken

 

[JayKosta]

It is playing the correct sequence of notes, but at the wrong 1/4 hour ?
Or, is the sequence of each 4-note phrase not correct?
15 minutes should be 4 notes
30 - 8 notes
45 - 12
hour - 16 and strike.

 

[Jess19721]

Can you post a photo between the plates showing the auto correct cam and levers or better yet a video? I have that movement as well. Ken X described it perfectly!

 

[Ken X]

Hi Jess,

If it assists here is a photo of the locking and correction cams on one of my K3s before the rebuild.

Both mine are cased up at the moment so unfortunately I can't video right now.
Never tried to post a video be honest so it could well end badly.

 

[Jess19721]

Thanks Ken I had mine apart about 30 times before I figured it out, most of my problem was bent parts due to a shipment calamity but the auto correct on mine was fickle. If i didn't have the chime lock lever tightened down on the cam with the EXACT right of pressure it would run on and throw the chime out of sequence. Maybe John can post a video of what his is doing. I remember there was a thread on this matter not long ago that was helpful too. Will see if I can find it. An almost if not exactly identical movement is in the Conover book (a Smith's) as well.

 

[Mike Phelan]

That's an excellent description of this dreadful Enfield auto-correction system. Everything is very critical. T R Robinson's book gives a good description and repair.
Thankfully Smiths altered all this on the later K3.

 

[Mike Phelan]

It is playing the correct sequence of notes, but at the wrong 1/4 hour ?
Or, is the sequence of each 4-note phrase not correct?
15 minutes should be 4 notes
30 - 8 notes
45 - 12
hour - 16 and strike.

Seems if it's just that the minute hand is in the wrong place - has it been taken off and put back wrong at some time?