smith mantle clock pendulum not oscillating

[eteo66]

Hi, I am a novice but recently acquired a mantle clock above. I am unable to set the pendulum in motion. It seems to have an abnormal, limited range of to and fro motion. It does not tick and it stops after a few oscillations. Look at the arrow. It seems that the crutch is hitting on the small window on the metal plate (don't know the name, sorry) and that it needs to be moved higher. Is this correct? I have posted a pic. I hope it helps. Thanks a lot friends.

 

[harold bain]

eteo66, welcome to the message board. You now have 2 threads running, so in an effort to simplify things, I will sink the other one, and we can keep the replies coming to this one.
Lets start with the basics. Is the clock in beat?

 

[shutterbug]

It looks to me like your crutch leader is pushed too far to the right (as we look at it). These are friction fit, which means they can be moved with a little applied pressure. Hold onto the pallets (what it's connected to on the other side) and force it back until it is about centered when at rest (hanging straight down). Then it should work. As Harold stated, it needs to be in beat, and you adjust that the same way - moving it until the beat is even on each side. Let us know how it's going

 

[lofty]

Further to what has been said, there is not a lot of pendulum swing on these clocks and when it is put in beat, you will find that the crutch will not hit on the sides of the opening in the plate.


Lofty

 

[eteo66]

It looks to me like your crutch leader is pushed too far to the right (as we look at it). These are friction fit, which means they can be moved with a little applied pressure. Hold onto the pallets (what it's connected to on the other side) and force it back until it is about centered when at rest (hanging straight down). Then it should work. As Harold stated, it needs to be in beat, and you adjust that the same way - moving it until the beat is even on each side. Let us know how it's going

Hi,

I have moved the crutch leader back to the centre and it is 'slightly' better in that it oscillates for less than a minute before it slowly loses its momentum and then stops. I notice that the pallet (is this the correct term? arrow in the diagram) is asymmetrical. The arrow points to one side which is higher compared to the opposite side. Is it supposed to be this way? Thanks again for your help.

 

[analogtime]

It is important to have the clock in beat. Search the posts and there are many discussions on this. For the clock to run at all this must be done.

 

[oldticker]

Hello eteo66, yes the top piece is the pallets and single side = pallet.

Yuo say you are a novice so have you cleaned or checked the movement (mechanism) for wear at the pivots (wheel arbor bearings) and is enough power getting through the train (wheels) ?

It seems pretty clean and sometimes the pallets faces wear (where the escape wheel teeth touches the pallets). Have you had these out and looked at them?
If you unscrew the two screws and examine them (not forgetting to hold the escape wheel with something) the faces should be polished shiny and smooth without much wear.

The depth of the pallets in relation to the escape wheel teeth is also important and you should set the so the escape teeth just clear the pallets with a fraction of clearance to give the pallets a better chance of going.

 

[bangster]

Hey eteo...
I think what you have is a simple beat problem. During the little while it is running, the "tick" and the "tock" should be evenly spaced. If it doesn't sound even, try tilting the clock to one side or the other. If it gets "more even", prop it up tilted and see how long it runs. If it continues to run for a while, adjust the crutch to the high side a bit (thanks Arjay) and remove the prop. See if it continues to run. If necessary, repeat the process until the tick and the tock are perfectly even.

Hope this helps,

bangster

 

[shutterbug]

You're definitely on the right track Now try to get the pallets about symmetrical while the crutch is straight down. Then adjust the beat as described. Remember - small adjustments! They're sensitive

 

[eteo66]

You're definitely on the right track Now try to get the pallets about symmetrical while the crutch is straight down. Then adjust the beat as described. Remember - small adjustments! They're sensitive

Thank you all for your comments and help.

I will try to push that side down a little to make both sides symmetrical and then adjust the beat. Will keep you all updated.

Regards

 

[eteo66]

Hi,

I am still having problems getting this clock moving. I have removed the movement and you can see the pallet is asymmetrical. Is it supposed to be this way? I can post more pictures if necessary.

To summarize, I am unable to keep the pendulum going for more than a few seconds before it stops. Even when I tilt the clock to one side to get an even beat, it still stops. :bang:

Thanks for any advice.

 

[shutterbug]

That picture helps You either have a dead-beat or a recoil .... can't tell for sure. Does the escape wheel move with the tips pointing forward or backward? Either way, it seems more likely that we have power being robbed somewhere. The two screws that hold the pallet arbor - were they removed or moved?

 

[Scottie-TX]

It looks to me like your crutch leader is pushed too far to the right (as we look at it). These are friction fit, which means they can be moved with a little applied pressure.

It's a deadbeat.
THIS one does not APPEAR to be friction fit as the other. Note the machine screw atop the pallet assembly.
You've already told us you understand symmetry so you understand where approximately the anchor (pallet assembly) should be.
So:
So; Undo the screw atop that assembly and position the anchor such as it appears symmetric. Repeat this adjustment as you did the friction one.
IFF(!) there's no other problem this procedure will eventually get it to beat.
Kapeesh? I knew you would.

 

[eteo66]

It looks to me like your crutch leader is pushed too far to the right (as we look at it). These are friction fit, which means they can be moved with a little applied pressure.

It's a deadbeat.
THIS one does not APPEAR to be friction fit as the other. Note the machine screw atop the pallet assembly.
You've already told us you understand symmetry so you understand where approximately the anchor (pallet assembly) should be.
So:
So; Undo the screw atop that assembly and position the anchor such as it appears symmetric. Repeat this adjustment as you did the friction one.
IFF(!) there's no other problem this procedure will eventually get it to beat.
Kapeesh? I knew you would.

Hi, this is the same clock. When you mean the machine screw do you mean the white arrow in the figure below or the yellow arrow? Thanks for all your help. I'm still very new at this!

 

[Hayson]

Actually either will do the same job but I believe Scottie referred to the yellow arrow on the pallets. Personally I'd be surprised if the crutch mounting (white arrow) does not have a slip arrangement built into it. Nearly all of theirs do including the early ones from the 1930's.

 

[eteo66]

Actually either will do the same job but I believe Scottie referred to the yellow arrow on the pallets. Personally I'd be surprised if the crutch mounting (white arrow) does not have a slip arrangement built into it. Nearly all of theirs do including the early ones from the 1930's.

So to summarize, I unscrew the yellow arrow and push down the pallet (orange arrow) so that both sides are symmetrical correct?

 

[oldticker]

I have a clock the same in at the mo and have made things a lot clearer for people by suppling photos of the pallets out.

They are anchor pallets as per photo.

As I said before they have a friction washer plus assembly which just holds the pallets from getting misplaced when putting in beat.

The crutch moves independant of the assembly.

 

[eteo66]

That picture helps You either have a dead-beat or a recoil .... can't tell for sure. Does the escape wheel move with the tips pointing forward or backward? Either way, it seems more likely that we have power being robbed somewhere. The two screws that hold the pallet arbor - were they removed or moved?

Hi, shutterbug, I'm not sure which 2 screws you mean. Can you help show in the pic where the screws are supposed to be? Thanks

 

[oldticker]

the screw and washer is the correct ones from factory fitted.as per this photo.

 

[oldticker]

Does the escape wheel 'escape' through the pallets one tooth at a time making it do so with your finger?

If no then either
1 - you have the pallets too low
2 - no power is going through the train (wheels) from your barrel.

If yes and it stops escaping after while - you a problem with lack of power through the train. Normal reasons for this is 1 - dirt, 2 - pivot holes needs bushing and 3 - mainspring and barrel need servicing properly.

 

[eteo66]

Does the escape wheel 'escape' through the pallets one tooth at a time making it do so with your finger?

If no then either
1 - you have the pallets too low
2 - no power is going through the train (wheels) from your barrel.

If yes and it stops escaping after while - you a problem with lack of power through the train. Normal reasons for this is 1 - dirt, 2 - pivot holes needs bushing and 3 - mainspring and barrel need servicing properly.

Thank you Old ticker. The escape wheel 'escapes' through the pallets one tooth at a time. So I guess it is reasons 1,2 or 3 and I will have to send it in for servicing. Thanks all for your help. It has been a great learning experience.

 

[lofty]

The term "symmetrical" has been used a few times in this thread and I wonder if it is causing some confusion. If it is implied that in order for the clock to be in beat , the shoulders of the pallets should be parallel, then I cannot see how this would work as the escape wheel arbor is offset to one side in relation to the arbor of the pallets.

In other words, the two arbors are not in the same vertical plane and it would be impossible for the clock to function (in my opinion) if the pallets are symmetrical. It would be different if the escape wheel arbor was directly under the arbor of the pallets.

Have I misunderstood something here ?


Lofty

 

[oldticker]

"symmetrical" mmmmmmm...I would say you are correct - not all are in line and I would also say not important as the escape wheel drives the pallets by force generated from the mainspring. The motion of the pallets swinging to and fro just has to be kept going by enough force from a properly serviced source.

(i)

 

[Scottie-TX]

My bad, perhaps. I understand your correct reasoning on "symmetric" and agree. I was simply borrowing 66's vernacular to explain my thinking in the terms he used. Maybe not a good thing. Sometimes it's difficult to decide whether to correct the writer's terminology and introduce them to the correct term or just explain your thinking in their terms.

 

[eteo66]

My bad, perhaps. I understand your correct reasoning on "symmetric" and agree. I was simply borrowing 66's vernacular to explain my thinking in the terms he used. Maybe not a good thing. Sometimes it's difficult to decide whether to correct the writer's terminology and introduce them to the correct term or just explain your thinking in their terms.

Thank you all. I came to the same conclusion myself whilst looking at the pallets and the escape mechanism. I realised that if I had put the pallets to be even, it would not drive the mechanism so have decided to send the clock in for a repair. Thanks once again for all your time and help

 

[Kevin W.]

Eteo, why not try to the repair yourself? You said you are a novice, we are here to help you.

 

[eteo66]

Eteo, why not try to the repair yourself? You said you are a novice, we are here to help you.

Thanks for the offer. I will take it up in the future. I brought the clock down to the repairman and he said that it was something to do with the escapement. As it is my first clock, I want to take it slow. But don't worry, I've bought a cheap movement to take apart and put back together and I will take it from there!

 

[Scottie-TX]

Understand, ET.
It hasn't been that many years ago for me that I was where you are so it is easy for me to recall. I recall not even considering escapement adjustments for I believed those adjustments were made by GOD, and only GOD or one of his appointed should change it. I'm not being humorous now. I felt as you. You'll progress. You'll come to understand, and as a result, come to enjoy clocks even more.
Laurie Penman is a GREAT book to have for understanding escapements.

 

[al_taka]

Understand, ET.
It hasn't been that many years ago for me that I was where you are so it is easy for me to recall. I recall not even considering escapement adjustments for I believed those adjustments were made by GOD, and only GOD or one of his appointed should change it. I'm not being humorous now. I felt as you. You'll progress. You'll come to understand, and as a result, come to enjoy clocks even more.
Laurie Penman is a GREAT book to have for understanding escapements.

You mean to tell me GOD doesn't adjust escapements?? :bang:

Well its back to the monastery for me.

 

[Kevin W.]

Et, that is a good thing to do, perhaps the repair man will show you what he did to your clock and you will learn from it.
Glad to hear you are going to pursue clock repair.