Small V&C gold ladies watch

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by pmwas, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
    1,844
    712
    113
    Sosnowiec, Poland
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Finally I've found some parts for my watch :)

    DSC00570.JPG

    It's a small (33mm) ladies watch from 19th Century.
    It has a lovely gold case, hardly worn:

    DSC00574.JPG

    Nice pattern on back…

    DSC00575.JPG

    ...and coin edge:

    DSC00576.JPG

    The crystal is temporary :)

    Movement:

    DSC00572.JPG

    Lepine style 6j cylinder.

    I've bought this watch some time ago. I was cheated - it was supposed to just 'need cleaning', but it had the whole escapement broken.
    I took many tries, but did not succeed in repairing it.
    And today, finally - I got an exactly the same movement. Exact twin.
    All fine. what's better.

    And so I've replaced the broken parts and the watch is perfect.
    Working on it, I noticed:

    DSC00555.JPG

    V&C. It it THE V&C? Don't know. If it is - it gets even better :)
     
    viclip likes this.
  2. MartyR

    MartyR Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 16, 2008
    10,993
    289
    83
    UK
    Country Flag:
    According to Mikrolisk, Vacheron & Constantin registered only 4 slightly different V&C marks. Three of these include the well-known Maltese cross such as the following:

    bildmarke_vacheron24.jpg

    and two of those were registered in 1889, the third undated. But one of them did not include the cross, was registered in 1903, and is shown below:

    bildmarke_vacheron6.jpg

    If you ignore the cameo, I get a hint of that unusually shaped ampersand in your photo. Maybe you can see that in "real life"? If they are indeed similar, that would support the possibility that it is indeed a Vacheron & Constantin watch.
     
    pmwas likes this.
  3. tick talk

    tick talk Registered User

    Sep 16, 2008
    561
    69
    28
    Country Flag:
    FWIW, 104007 is circa 1855-60 in V&C production timeline. If everything was original V&C, I would expect the case to have the same serial number, repeated on the cuvette with the Manufacture's name.
     
  4. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
    1,844
    712
    113
    Sosnowiec, Poland
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The case has a matching number.

    Cuvette:

    IMG_3044.JPG

    Sorry for the quality - taken with my phone.
    Says CUIVRE.
     
  5. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
    NAWCC Gold Member

    Jan 8, 2006
    1,925
    924
    113
    Male
    80% Retired Attorney
    Pasadena
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Cuivre is French for copper.
     
  6. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
    1,844
    712
    113
    Sosnowiec, Poland
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yes, that's correct, the cuvette is base metal, as opposed to the rest of the case.
     
  7. tick talk

    tick talk Registered User

    Sep 16, 2008
    561
    69
    28
    Country Flag:
    It's an interesting piece because the signs mostly point to V&C, however, it wasn't their practice to offer anonymous watches so the lack of maker or private label identification on the dial or cuvette is unusual. Their second quality watches would be marked V&C under the dial as yours is, but were also identified on the cuvette with one of their trade names.

    I don't believe nowadays VC will confirm anything more than they have a record of the serial number unless you purchase their Extract from the Archives.

    This watch with similar layout, belonging to my wife, dates from 1870s with 125xxx serial number. It is fully marked on dial, case, cuvette, and movement.

    Service 003a.jpg
     
    Omexa and pmwas like this.
  8. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
    1,844
    712
    113
    Sosnowiec, Poland
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Like I said - it's be nice if it really were a Vacheron watch, but regardless - I'm so so happy to have it repaired. It's the first solid gold PW I ever bought and it was very depressing to see it devastated inside.

    Glad to have it back :)
     
  9. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
    1,844
    712
    113
    Sosnowiec, Poland
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I replaced the damaged barrel cover (jammed stop works due to a serious bend) and the watch is working again!!! I tried to repair the bend, but in the end, I could either use the original cover w/out the stop works or use a replacement with it - I chose the second option...
    An original part after all :)

    IMG_3073.JPG
     
    tick talk and Omexa like this.
  10. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 14, 2001
    5,483
    310
    83
    Aerospace Engineer
    New Hampshire
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    There are two reasons to suspect that the pmwas watch is counterfeit:
    1) V&C almost always attached their dials then with screws into the front at 9 and 3
    2) V&C cylinders had a limiter on the balance and three dots to set beat on the dial plate.
     
  11. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
    1,844
    712
    113
    Sosnowiec, Poland
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    AD 1 - the dial with screws going into the dial feet (not just holding them) is also typical of VC.

    AD 2 - was it any other limiter than the standard pin on the rim?

    Also, not counterfeit, as the V&C marking is hidden under the dial. So it was not meant to decieve, I think maybe someone else signed their watches lukę that. The donor movement has an S/N in 150xxx rangę if it helps - all details the same.
     
    Omexa likes this.
  12. eri231

    eri231 Registered User

    Jan 13, 2012
    1,265
    121
    63
    Male
    torino italy
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    casually I have the same movement. SN 98286.
    hope this help
    regards enrico

    IMG_0521.jpg IMG_0520 (1).jpg IMG_0518 (1).jpg
     
    pmwas likes this.
  13. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
    1,844
    712
    113
    Sosnowiec, Poland
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yes, that's the one...

    Only has the V&C marking elswhere.
     
  14. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    6,137
    1,209
    113
    Geologist - California Geological Survey
    Los Angeles, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I offer this movement, #97641, for comparison. It is only marked "Vacheron & Constantin" on the center bridge. Diameter is 34 mm (background grid is 20 per inch). It has 15 jewels and appears to be quite well finished and I had always thought it to be genuine. The movement pattern is identical to an array of "machine-made" movements attributed to V&C by Jacquet & Chapuis in Plate 111 of their "Technique and History of the Swiss Watch". My movement has no dial and I am not sure how it may have been attached.
    V&C_97641.jpg
     
    pmwas likes this.
  15. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
    1,844
    712
    113
    Sosnowiec, Poland
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks!

    It's striking that the finish of these all movements is the same as well as some design features, so either all are genuine or all are fake.
    The presence of the actual full name on your movement shows it's not just another V&C marking, but means the V&C.

    Still - two are marked on the visible side, while the other two under the dial. I wonder why would someone mark a fake under the dial, normally a fake V&C has the Vacheron name screaming at you from all over the watch ;)

    Also - you don't see it in the pics, but the finish of my movement is very good.
     

Share This Page