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Slow down!!!

daniel384

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I am working on a Waterbury 2 Collumn Mantel clock, early 1900s. I've lowered the pendulum as far as I can without dragging the bottom of the case, but it still gains as much as 5-10 minutes an hour. The pendulum weighs 2.6oz. Would it help to use a heavier pendulum?
 

itbme1987

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maybe the suspension springs are too short?
 

R. Croswell

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I am working on a Waterbury 2 Collumn Mantel clock, early 1900s. I've lowered the pendulum as far as I can without dragging the bottom of the case, but it still gains as much as 5-10 minutes an hour. The pendulum weighs 2.6oz. Would it help to use a heavier pendulum?
Assuming that the movement is original to the clock, I would begin by carefully checking that the escapenent is not allowing more than one tooth to pass per tick. The palletts may be too far away from the escape wheel.

The weight of the pendulum should not have that much effect on the rate.

Bob C
 

daniel384

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I am pretty sure the movement is original, marked Waterbury. It is only allowing one tooth per tick of the escapement.
Jeff, what do you mean by "What kind of pendulum swing do you have?".
Everything appears to be running properly.
I don't know if it matters, but this clock has a bong on the hour and bell strike on the half hour.
Dan
 

R. Croswell

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At the hook, (top of the pendulum), I have a 3/8" swing.
Dan
If that's all the swing you have, I suspect that you are actually having extra teeth skip now and then that you don't notice - doesn't take many. I would try to move the verge (pallet strip) just a very small amount closer to the escape wheel. I believe you will get a lot more swing and if teeth are skiping, it should solve that issue also.

Bob C
 

Jeff C

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I would think with that short of a swing for the movement would result in it running fast. I don't think those movements would be under an inch but I could be wrong. I'm still leaning towards too stiff of suspension spring. A thinner spring is less resistant to the force of action thus allowing a longer swing and slowing the clock to within specifications.

I'm certainly no expert just that I've seen this occur before. I have thinned them out before and it worked well to correct a similar problem.
 

R. Croswell

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..............I'm still leaning towards too stiff of suspension spring. A thinner spring is less resistant to the force of action thus allowing a longer swing and slowing the clock to within specifications..........
I would agree completely with what you say, but his clock is running two hours per day fast and that's with the normal adjustment maxed out. It would really have to be an awfully thick spring to damp the swing to 3/8 of an inch, and there was no mention that the spring has been replaced. Will be interesting to see what the answer is, but I'm still betting that the palletts are barely contacting the escape wheel, transfering very little power and occasionally allowing teeth to skip. But we may both be wrong!

Bob C
 

daniel384

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I certainly appreciate all the replys. The spring is .003 in. I am going to try to move the pallet and see if I can get a longer swing. When I first ran the clock I thought it had an awful short swing. I will post my results as soon as I find something out.
Dan
 

R. Croswell

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I certainly appreciate all the replys. The spring is .003 in. I am going to try to move the pallet and see if I can get a longer swing. When I first ran the clock I thought it had an awful short swing. I will post my results as soon as I find something out.
Dan
.003" should be fine for the spring on a clock like this, certainly not excessively thick. I would expect .003 to .004 to be typical.

Bob C.
 

Jeff C

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.003" should be fine for the spring on a clock like this, certainly not excessively thick. I would expect .003 to .004 to be typical.

Bob C.
I bet your correct Bob. My posts earlier seemed to post at the same time as yours and I didn't catch them after I had replied. My apologies.

I did check the suspensions I have that I bought as a lot and they are .0045-.005. I looked at my notes and it seems the ones I had problems with were Ansonia Open Escapement movements using these units.
 

daniel384

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Well, now I don't know what to think. Before retiring last night, and before changing the position of the verge, I re-positioned the clock, checked it for level both front-back and side-side, and set it to the correct time. It has been keeping perfect time for about 9 hours. Could it be that I wazs simply not level? (I ain't gonna touch it no more)
 

R. Croswell

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Well, now I don't know what to think. Before retiring last night, and before changing the position of the verge, I re-positioned the clock, checked it for level both front-back and side-side, and set it to the correct time. It has been keeping perfect time for about 9 hours. Could it be that I wazs simply not level? (I ain't gonna touch it no more)
A clock like that running with only 3/8' pendulum swing has got to be very unstable and hypersensative to being level and every other environmental variable. Even if the clock seems to be keeping time now, I think you need to address the tiny swing issue. The key point is that unless leveling the clock produced a normal pendulum swing you still have a problem and the time keeping issue will resurface sooner or later - possibly as soon as you fully wind the clock the next time.

Bob C.
 

al_taka

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Has the movement been cleaned and overhauled? If not the lack of power at the escapement might give a very short swing and may stop altogether in the near future.
Hope you fix it soon.
 

wdonovan

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Seems hard to believe that the clock had been off level. Off left to right would increase the amount of swing needed just to keep it running. A clock with 3/8 swing would have to be dead level and exactly in beat to run at all. As far as off level front to back, did you check if the pendulum or crutch hits anything like a screw, etc. If tilted forward (or backward) and something stopped the pendulum in its tracks and sent it back the other way, well that's a different story. Something changed by moving the clock. Don't think it was a serious power loss. That would make the EW sluggish at the same time as shortening the swing. Don't think it could speed it up that much.
 

Scottie-TX

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. . . . . . . . . as well you should - feel comfortable replying - everyone should. I wish more would. Alas, many are timid and MANY more would agree with you than me!
Being that I had that experience and taken notes about it I felt comfortable replying to the topic.
I am no "last word" on ANYthing horology.
BONG'd say I need sensitivity training. Well. He already has.
 

Jeff C

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. . . . . . . . . as well you should - feel comfortable replying - everyone should. I wish more would. Alas, many are timid and MANY more would agree with you than me!

I am no "last word" on ANYthing horology.
BONG'd say I need sensitivity training. Well. He already has.
Honestly Scottie I thought you were giving me a quick kick in the shins :eek:

No harm no foul :D
 

shutterbug

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I'm guessing that in trying to lower the pallet, you corrected a skipping situation and thus corrected the problem. Is this a recoil escapement or dead beat?
 

wdonovan

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Ah hah. I read his post "before changing the position of the verge" as "instead of changing th eposition of the verge". You read is as "after that I changed the position of the verge". Bet he did change it. That's why problem is fixed. Heh, Dan?
 

daniel384

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I had to have a tooth pulled, (from me, not the clock), and have been silent for a couple of days.
The position of the verge was not changed before the clock started keeping time. I suspect that with the short swing, you are right and I will still have problems. But, I have 7 other clocks that need attention so I am going to shelve this one for now.
Thanks for all the input.
Dan
 

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