Skeleton Clock

Discussion in 'Clock Construction' started by WMello, Oct 3, 2017.

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  1. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    #1 WMello, Oct 3, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
    The start
    SkeletonClock 005.jpg
    SkeletonClock 007.jpg
    With a little help from the nosy fella
    SkeletonClock 009.jpg

    This is a recreated post. SkeletonClock 009.jpg
     
  2. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Plates filled, drilled/reamed and tapped
    SkeletonClock 011.jpg

    SkeletonClock 015.jpg

    SkeletonClock 019.jpg

    SkeletonClock 020.jpg

    Beginning of the pillars
    SkeletonClock 016.jpg

    SkeletonClock 022.jpg

    SkeletonClock 023.jpg
     
  3. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Frame
    SkeletonClock 025.jpg
    The boss is not amused.
     
  4. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Pillars
    SkeletonClock 047.jpg
    SkeletonClock 038.jpg
    SkeletonClock 042.jpg
    SkeletonClock 043.jpg
    SkeletonClock 046.jpg
     
  5. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Working on the barrel
    SkeletonClock 055.jpg
    SkeletonClock 060.jpg

    Barrel.JPG
    Loctite and pins at the back cover, screws at front.
     
  6. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    More about the barrel
    SkeletonClock 064.jpg
    SkeletonClock 071.jpg
    SkeletonClock 068.jpg
    SkeletonClock 074.jpg
     
  7. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    End of the barrel, for now.
    SkeletonClock 075.jpg
    SkeletonClock 076.jpg
    SkeletonClock 079.jpg
     
  8. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Winding and Maintaining Ratchets
    SkeletonClock 084.jpg
    SkeletonClock 085.jpg
    SkeletonClock 086.jpg
    Fuzzy Butt is back.
    SkeletonClock 090.jpg
    SkeletonClock 091.jpg
     
  9. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Click spring
    CAM01436.jpg
     
  10. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Fusee, beginning
    SkeletonClock 115.jpg
    SkeletonClock 103.jpg
    SkeletonClock 116.jpg
    SkeletonClock 117.jpg
    SkeletonClock 108.jpg
    Parts
    SkeletonClock 112.jpg
    Maintaining ratchet click
    SkeletonClock 113.jpg
    Maintaining ratchet
    SkeletonClock 114.jpg
     
  11. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    This is a recreation of the original thread, whose images are missing.
    The original will be abandoned, new entries will be posted here.
    Thank you for the 1854 viewers of the original thread.

    Wagner
     
  12. Allan Wolff

    Allan Wolff Moderator
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    Wagner,
    Thank you for going to the trouble of re-posting the missing pictures. I have locked the old thread so we don't have 2 threads going, but didn't want to delete it and lose the responses already there.
    Keep up the good work!
    Allan
     
  13. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Fusee
    SkeletonClock 127.jpg
    SkeletonClock 128.jpg
    Not happy with first one, making second
    SkeletonClock 121.jpg

    Wagner
     
  14. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Fusee turning contraption

    Turning radius, with auto-feed
    FuseeTurning 001.jpg FuseeTurning 002.jpg FuseeTurning 003.jpg
    FuseeTurning 004.jpg FuseeTurning 005.jpg
    FuseeTurning 006.jpg
    FuseeTurning 007.jpg
    Cross slide lead-screw removed
    FuseeTurning 008.jpg FuseeTurning 009.jpg
    Threading over the radius
    FuseeTurning 010.jpg FuseeTurning 011.jpg FuseeTurning 012.jpg

    Wagner
     
  15. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    And a gif
    FuseeTurning.gif
     
  16. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Turning a fusee cone seems to be one of the bravest things one can do where machining parts is concerned.

    I know there were tools specifically made for doing this, but you seem to have taken a more direct approach.

    Would you be willing to share more about what you actually did?
    Not the specifics of feed speed and such... Just the high-level thought and execution for this process.
     
  17. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Hi MartinM, thank you.

    It works like a lathe taper attachment. The cross slide lead-screw is removed and cross slide gibs are slacked a bit.
    A bar is secured over the lathe bed and a arm is connected between that bar and the cross slide. The spacing of pivots of the arm corresponds to the radius required.
    When in use, the lathe lead screw pulls the carriage (via auto-feed or half-nut for threading) and the arm pulls or pushes the cross slide accordingly.

    I have filmed the operation but the videos are too long and boring. I will edit a little this evening and will have it uploaded by tomorrow (I hope so).

    Wagner
     
  18. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Thanks. I think I get what you mean but, in this case, a moving picture would literally be worth a thousand words.
     
  19. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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  20. tok-tokkie

    tok-tokkie Registered User

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    I would have been very confused if I was cutting the 'thread' section that the tool was not in contact with the curved surface all the way.
    Thanks for the video - I did not appreciate that the near pivot of the link was fixed in space. Now it is all clear how it works.
     
  21. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    I tok-tokkie,

    It is a little confusing on the beginning.
    Please note that the cut at the left side of the fusee is shaped like a bowl, and on the right side shaped like a inverted "J".
    The stem of the "J" (or say the right cheek) must be cut first.

    Thread.JPG
    Wagner
     
  22. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Thank you so much for that.
    It's all much clearer, now.
     
  23. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Fusee (II)
    SkeletonClock 139.jpg
    SkeletonClock 140.jpg
    SkeletonClock 142.jpg
    SkeletonClock 144.jpg
    SkeletonClock 149.jpg
     
  24. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Wheel cutting
     
  25. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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  26. tok-tokkie

    tok-tokkie Registered User

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    Thanks for the video of making the cutters & then cutting.
    It seems as if the cutting face of the tool in the fly cutter does not lie on the diameter of the fly cutter holder. Is that correct or are my eyes deceiving me?
    I thought the usual procedure is to cut the teeth in a single pass at full depth but with slow feed. Then cut again with a polishing cut. How many down steps did you use & what was the depth of cut for the final polishing cut?
     
  27. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    I tok-tokkie

    Thank you for the comments.
    You have observed right. The fly cutter bit is held centered on the arbor, as in the figure A

    CutterA.png

    As opposed to B, it will create a apparent negative back rake, as in C. But I dont know if this is really relevant, as shown in E.
    I was concerned about having just a thin wall of steel behind the cutter, or too short set screws.
    The minimum speed on my machine is 8000 RPM, so the mass and balance of the thing must be kept within reason.

    About the cutting procedure, you are right again, in a traditional manual operation.
    As I am using a homemade router CNC and 4th axis setup, I dont have to turn cranks by hand, so I can deviate a little from tradition.
    By cutting just one DOC at a time and rotating the blank for the next teeth I can see the marking dye gradually go away and don't have to "decide" on a final depth of cut from the very beginning. According to the remaining of the dye I can stop the operation at the end of a rotation and all teeth spaces will be at the same depth. I have been lucky and the calculated depth has worked well for all the wheels so far.
    Also, I have to think about the limitations of my setup. It works better with shallow DOC and faster feeds.

    On the video example:

    Arbor diameter: 3/4"
    Cutter: 1/4" x 1.125" long W1 tool steel
    Hardening/Tempering: 800°C / 290°C (1472°F / 554°F)

    Blank: Brass 260 1/16" thick 2.2137" diameter
    Wheel: 42 DP, 90 teeth

    Cutting: 8000 RPM
    DOC: 0.007" per pass
    Total depth: 0.0728"
    Feed: 5 IPM

    So, 10 passes at DOC 0.007" plus 1 pass at full depth and 0.0028" DOC plus a last spring pass at full depth.

    Please note that most of the parameters are just a educated guess, based on previous experiences.

    Wagner
     
  28. Phil Burman

    Phil Burman Registered User

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    Hi Wagner. things look to be going really great, some fantastic work. Did you consider cutting the fusee with your CNC mill?

    Phil
     
  29. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Hi Phil, thank you.

    I've tried. Wrote a g-code for it and did a test run. Used a bull-nose 1/16" end mill, but got too much chatter.
    I guess because both sides of the end mill where rubbing on the walls and my CNC router disguised as mill is not rigid enough for this.

    Wagner
     
  30. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    My first pinion in steel:
    SkeletonClock 156.jpg
    SkeletonClock 160.jpg
     
  31. tok-tokkie

    tok-tokkie Registered User

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    Yes diagram E explains it. It means the back relief angle has to be a bit bigger.
    I have been drawing up a set of gears & had planned on making a different style of fly cutter. Now I will probably follow your example.
     
  32. Phil Burman

    Phil Burman Registered User

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    What I did was to mill a stepped, reducing diameter spiral 2 mm wide using a 6 mm end mill then just ran a 1.5 mm ball nose with two passes to produce a groove for a 1.4 mm bronze cable.

    I used Allans' spreadsheet and the Excel curve fitting function to produce a polynomial equation for the curve and then used this to calculate a table of z position for every turn of the fusee and x axis movement of 2 mm. Not as difficult as it sounds. By using this method you can easily produce a fusee curve with any profile you like.

    Phil
     
  33. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Hi Phil, tok-tokkie.

    Tok-tokkie, the relief angle used was 10°
    Phil, interesting process and clearly described. Thank you.

    Wagner
     
  34. tok-tokkie

    tok-tokkie Registered User

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    My thought processes are no longer what they were. After diagram E when the center of the fly cutter is in line with the gear tooth the cutter will be 'overcutting' slightly. The cutting tip follows the red circle and that will take it deeper into the gear material. It is diagram D which shows the full depth that the cutter will cut - move the cutter to the right so it is in the tooth. Sure, you will arrange that the actual cut gives you the tooth width that you want but the profile cut will be marginally different to the profile of the cutter. Again that can be compensated for - in fact it is what I had to do for the gear cutters I was intending to make.
     
  35. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Hi tok-tokkie, it could well be, I don't know.
    On making a new arbor, the bit could be made to align with the center line.
    In the practical world, there is too many variables; Even cutting the profiles by CNC, they seldom end up exactly as intended, there is the difficulty of aligning the cutter on the center of the blank, there is vibration and deflection, then the profile is changed slightly on hardening (for pinions), again on polishing...
     
  36. Kim Miller

    Kim Miller Registered User
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    Hi WMello,
    Great work!!!
    What brand of lathe are you using? I have a Sherline but it seems too small to be turning a fusee.
    Thanks.
    Kim
     
  37. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Hello Kim,
    Mine is a PM1030 from Precision Matthews
    Wagner
     
  38. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    By alchemy and fire, steel bites steel
    SkeletonClock 165.jpg SkeletonClock 168.jpg
    SkeletonClock 174.jpg SkeletonClock 175.jpg
    Hardened W1steel cutter, W1 steel blank

    Wagner
     
  39. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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  40. John MacArthur

    John MacArthur Registered User
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    Mello -- This all looks terrific. I wonder what RPM, feedrate, and cut depth you are using, and is that a 1/8" mill? Carbide? Are you just super-glueing the wheels down to an aluminum plate?

    I'm generally pretty cautious, but it looks like you may be running a little faster, even before the time-lapse.

    Thanks,
    John MacArthur
     
  41. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    #41 WMello, Oct 28, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
    Hi John, thank you.

    The wheels are 1/16" thick and just glued to the aluminum base (Loctite Professional Super Glue, the blue bottle). Parts are removed later with heat, or a long bath in acetone.

    The fist part of the video, on the large wheel, shows a roughing cut with a 1/8" end mill (carbide) 0.010" DOC, 15 IPM, 8000 RPM

    The smaller wheel is about 1" diameter and the cutting was done in two steps. Fist a roughing cut 1/16" carbide 2 flute end mill, conventional cut, 0.010" DOC, 15 IPM and a little over 8000 RPM. I've used a spiral lead in move; the bit ramps down to the DOC, then a cleaning round is done enlarging the cut to 0.070"; this widened "tench" prevents the bit to hub the walls.

    Then the final cut with the same 1/16" bit, 0.008" DOC, climb cut, 20 IPM, the same little over 8000 RPM, spiral cut.

    The 8000 RPM is the minimum of my spindle (Bosch router) and the "little over" means the step 2 of the speed dial.

    15 or 20 IPM is a little faster than I normally do too, but It was a brand new end mill, used the first time today and I was feeling lucky...

    I got the end mill from the eBay "drillman1" and they are supposedly by Kyocera.

    Wagner
     
  42. tok-tokkie

    tok-tokkie Registered User

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    I tried the super glue idea - details came from W.R.Smith book. I probably used too deep a cut because the work came unstuck. Later I saw someone using hot melt glue which worked very well. That is what I am going to try next time. Plus a shallower depth of cut.
     
  43. John MacArthur

    John MacArthur Registered User
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    Thanks for that, Wagner. My parameters are approximately the same, except for the feedrate. Maybe I'll try a little faster. I clamp my wheels down at the perimeter to a small jig, and so have plenty of rigidity. I'm using Rhino, CamBam, and Flashcut - what are you using? Sooner or later, I swear, I'll post some pics of my most recent regulator, which is nearly finished.

    John MacArthur
     
  44. Paul Madden

    Paul Madden Registered User
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    Hello Wagner,

    I have a question regarding something I observed on your YouTube video titled "ClockMaker Help"
    It appears that the bench top you are using features a built-in wooden vice, that can be used to support large work such as a clock frame.
    Did you build this combination bench top/vice yourself, and if so, would it be possible to post some photographs of it with a description of how you made it?
    It looks extremely useful.

    Best wishes in the meantime,
    Paul.
     
  45. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Hello Tokie-tokkie, John and Paul,

    Tokie-tollie, sometimes the glue fails here too. To get a good grip, the surfaces must be absolutely clean. I use acetone and if on the lathe, a fresh surface cut. Also the glue fails with heat, so the work must be kept cool.
    John, we will remember the promise about the pictures. I use Autocad, CamBam and Mach3.
    Paul, the workbench was made for woodworking, well before I started with clocks. The top was made with 2x4 glued vertically, it is 3 1/2" thick. The vise is a somewhat standard vise for woodworking, one buys the metal parts and add the wood. Something like this:

    Cabinet Maker's Front Vise | Grizzly Industrial

    Wagner
     
  46. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Not exactly a success today
    SkeletonClock 177.jpg
     
  47. Phil Burman

    Phil Burman Registered User

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    I also used glue but found it to unreliable so I made up clamping arrangements for crossing out 5 and 6 spoke wheels, see photo, and a range of clamps for holding wheels while cutting teeth, one of which is included in the photo. Now wheel making is much quicker and risk free.

    wheel clamps.JPG
     
  48. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Maybe I am misreading the process here, but are you cutting steel pinions with a fly cutter running at 8000 rpm? If so I would like to hear more. A long time ago an early clock building fellow by the name of Bill Curtain told me he also fly cut steel pinions at high speed
     
  49. Phil Burman

    Phil Burman Registered User

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    I think the reference to 8000 rpm is in regard to crossing out wheels with a CNC milling machine using end mills

    Quote:

    The fist part of the video, on the large wheel, shows a roughing cut with a 1/8" end mill (carbide) 0.010" DOC, 15 IPM, 8000 RPM

    The smaller wheel is about 1" diameter and the cutting was done in two steps. Fist a roughing cut 1/16" carbide 2 flute end mill, conventional cut, 0.010" DOC, 15 IPM and a little over 8000 RPM. I've used a spiral lead in move; the bit ramps down to the DOC, then a cleaning round is done enlarging the cut to 0.070"; this widened "tench" prevents the bit to hub the walls.

    Then the final cut with the same 1/16" bit, 0.008" DOC, climb cut, 20 IPM, the same little over 8000 RPM, spiral cut.

    Phil
     
  50. WMello

    WMello Registered User

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    Hi Phil, Jim,

    The steel pinions where cut at the mill, with a single tooth fly cutter at 400 to 600 RPM.

    And the results are not perfect, as you can see in the picture. The clock plan calls for lantern pinions, but I decided to experiment with steel pinions.

    The little one, with six leaves looks ok and will be used. It was made from free-machining 12L14 carbon steel. It will go on the clock motion work, driving the Hour wheel; as I understand, at this position there is no need for hardening as there is very little force involved.

    The other pinions where cut from W1 tool steel and the results are not so great. There was some chatter, flexing and premature dulling of the tool.

    The machine running at 8000 RPM is the CNC router; I use it to mill the cutters profile, crossing of the wheels and general parts in brass (some on mild steel) with carbide end mills. It is also used to cut wheels teeth.

    Wagner

    PS. Phil, good looking devices there. My jigs normally looks cruder.
     

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