Silas Hoadley Tall case

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by DanJeffries, Oct 4, 2011.

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  1. DanJeffries

    DanJeffries Registered User

    Dec 1, 2008
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    Hello all,
    Okay, I'm sure I'm fixing to be flooded with numerous views on what the best bushing material is......and believe me I have read Wood, teflon, delrin, and brass, all are the best in certain circumstances.
    Well here is my question, my clock has the Ivory bushings and they all appear to be original. However a couple have crack down the center and of course some have Oblong holes now.
    My question is what should I replace the Ivory bushings with short of going to Zoo Atlanta and knocking an elephant in the head? :p Just kidding!!!!!!!!!! I know for all you animal lovers, that hurt.

    My first thoughts are teflon to keep the original white Ivory look. I have also taken a couple of the old Ivory bushings and bushed them with modern bergeon bronze bushings. What can I say, I was bored on Saturday so I said what the heck........ Results were good, except now I will have to oil the movement. The clock is of course running well now, but I still have alot of worn bushings but the worst were repaired with the bushings mentioned above.
    Anyhow, any thoughts are appreciated. And again I have heard it all, this is better etc. I really want to hear results, and how the teflon and Delrin have "weathered" Wood is also an option, but again, that is not original to my clock.

    Can anyone tell me their experience with the Ivory bushings and there repair techniques.:confused:
     
  2. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
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    Dan:

    Go to an old piano repair shop and buy a real ivory piano key. It'll make quite a few bushings.

    Frank Del Greco
     
  3. DanJeffries

    DanJeffries Registered User

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    Great idea Frank, and I also thought of that the other day. I actually have an old piano in my barn, that is too far gone, and it has real Ivory keys. I removed one, however the Ivory is pretty thin, so not sure if I can make that work. I was planning on trying it though.
    Thanks and I'll let you know how it goes
    Dan
     
  4. Peter A. Nunes

    Peter A. Nunes Super Moderator
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    Dan, there has been discussion over the years regarding "ivory" bushings, with the consensus being they were most likely bone. I've heard of folks using piano key material with success, and I remember talking with someone some years ago at a Cog Counters meeting who had made a batch from a cow bone, using a band saw and plug cutters. He used hide glue to glue them in.

    As an aside, does anyone here know in fact whether these bushings are bone? It seems to me that a knowledgeable person could tell the difference at a glance.
     
  5. secondarylead

    secondarylead Registered User

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    Peter.

    I don't know if I qualify as the knowledgeable person you were seeking for an opinion, but I do remember reading that the so called ivory was actually bone. The use of bone makes sense since clockmakers had to keep their production costs as low as possible as to make a profit. Bone was plentiful versus and a much more expensive imported ivory. Perhaps the word bone was synonymous with ivory in this era, lending the the advertisement of ivory bushings on labels.
     
  6. DanJeffries

    DanJeffries Registered User

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    I will look into the issue of Ivory or Bone while I'm investigating. To be honest though, when I was installing the new bronze bushings into the old "ivory" bushings for my temporary fix, the reamer was cutting thru it nice and it really didn't have the bone texture. I have dealt with bone with a couple door eschuteons and the texture was completely different. And I have also dealt with piano ivory before, and it did have the same texture while drilling etc. I tinker with old pianos and pump organs some. HMMMMMMMMM:confused: Well further investigation is required. Of course it is easier and less a crime to knock a cow in the head...atleast in GA :D Just kidding again! Luckily if I do go the bone route my family has a farm, so no shortage of bones around there.

    I am going to try the piano ivory method probably this weekend, but again I really think it is a little thin. I guess it doesn't really matter if it isn't quite the exact thickness as the old bushings would it? I would imagine it would let the arbor wonder back and forth between the plates. The thicker keys that I'm familiar with on a piano are actually celluloid, and not real ivory. It was the first attempt to "cost-save" on pianos by marketing as real ivory keys, but of course using the cost saving Celluloid. Now that would probably be thick enough, but I don't know about using celluloid.

    Anyhow, thanks for the input and this is exactly what I'm looking for, more research based infor, and not the age old debate on what you feel is the best material.

    So I guess no one has used the teflon or delrin with time proven results? We use teflon and delrin here at my company for machine bushings all the time, so I thought why not in a clock? Especially to "replace" the ivory that can no longer by obtained with a white colored (teflon) bushing to give the authentic look plus the anti-friction quality.

    thanks and keep the info coming. I wil post some pics soon.
     
  7. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
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    Dan:

    I know a couple of clock repairers that regularly use teflon bushings in wooden works clocks with good, long-lasting results.

    If the ivory from piano keys is too thin, can you laminate two or more thicknesses together with superglue to make thicker stock? The cyanoacrylate ought to hold forever.

    Frank
     
  8. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    Hi
    How about a cue ball. They used to use celluloid but
    they tended to blow up so now they use some hard plastic
    of some type. I'd think this material could be cut up and
    machine to work as well as the original ivory. It would
    look about the same but not age as nicely.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  9. David 62

    David 62 Registered User
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    I would think that bone would work as well as ivory if you cut it from a bone that has dense cortical bone and not the spongy cancelous bone.Cortical bone makes up the bony hard plate of bone and the cancelous bone is the much less dense layer of bone under the cortical bone.I think that ivory is elephant dentin,and dentin is about the same hardness as cortical bone.A dry beef soup bone , a band saw and plug cutter should fit the bill.
    Dave
     
  10. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Dan,

    I have both bone and very old ivory, more than happy to ship some of each to you. Personally the WW examples I have owned with "ivory" bushings have generally been bone. Old Yankees tended to be both practical and frugal. There was a lot of bone available for free, or near free.....and before anybody gets their knckers in a knot over ivory, the ivory I own was 100 years old when I bought it nearly 40 years ago, certainly pre ban ivory. Sent me a PM with shipping information and I will send you some. I can also crank out some bushings as I have made the cutters to make them. I also have teflon you are welcome to, I would not recommend its use in clocks, I have tested it for that purpose and it does not work well for long, not nearly as well as bone...
     
  11. David D'Apice

    David D'Apice Registered User
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    I was able to buy dowel made of bone on Ebay --- and it was nearly the perfect diameter to press into the wood --- if it was a tad too large, I dropped it into the lathe -- while I was at it, I drilled the center hole -- and using a cutoff bit, I could make a dozen in no time. It was fun!
     
  12. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    It's very easy to tell the difference between ivory and bone, bone has a blood supply and ivory does not, you can see black flecks n bone where the blood vessels were. Lack of blood vessels does not guarantee ivory, but presence of blood vessels does prove bone.
     
  13. George Nelson

    George Nelson Registered User
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    Hi, All,

    FWIW, a few years ago, I had an ivory bushing to fall out of a thirty-day Seth Thomas wooden movement. The clock's label was proudly and boldly marked: "With the improvement of ivory bushings. Since I had always been curious, I took it to a friend at the University of Tennessee here in Knoxville. I actually took the whole movement and the errant bushing for an opinion. The results were a bit surprising, and sadly, will only serve to confuse the issue. Some of the bushings were indeed ivory, and some were bone. But, some were also from horse teeth! (I allowed one of the suspect bushings, the loose one, to be totally destroyed to be certain, but it was indeed from a horse's tooth!

    So, folks, there we have it. More confusion...

    Best to all,

    George
     
  14. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    teeth are very different aren't they? There is a nerve inside the dentine and then an enamel outer, so they must be a bit of an odd thing to make a bushing from, assuming horse teeth are the same as ours.
     
  15. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    I would bet those CT Yankees would use anything that was cheap, easily available and would do the job as well as appearing to the average person to be "ivory".

    Remember, in CT they used to sell people wooden nutmegs so often that it became an expression for anything fake or fraudulent!

    RM
     
  16. George Nelson

    George Nelson Registered User
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    RM, and All,

    RM, I'm glad you mentioned wooden nutmegs, the type Chauncey Jerome mentioned as having his clocks classified as during shipping. So, my friend, pray tell me what exactly ARE wooden nutmegs? Are they the nuts used in spices or does it refer to something else?

    Thanks,

    George

    Clarification about horse teeth: The University told me that the bushings were "main body" of the teeth (dentine), not the actual enamel.

    -G
     
  17. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    In re wooden nutmegs, this website is amusing, but I make no claims for its correctness.
     
  18. ballistarius

    ballistarius Registered User

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    OMG:rolleyes:!
    Many thanks for the clarification, Steven! I had always wondered about the exact meaning of 'wooden nutmegs' too...

    Aitor
     
  19. George Nelson

    George Nelson Registered User
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    Thanks, Steven! A big mystery for me finally solved!

    George
     
  20. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    George, you might like to submit this finding to the COG Journal for publication in the seen and found catigory?
     
  21. George Nelson

    George Nelson Registered User
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    Thanks for the suggestion, Jim. I will most certainly do that!

    George
     
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