Silas Hoadley clock for real?

Andy Newcomer

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I’m looking at buying this Silas Hoadley clock but something is giving me the feeling that something isn’t right. The movement and label look to new. Please if someone could take a look with with more experience than myself. Thank you

14BD741D-8F35-4FEC-B007-B76E0589CC09.jpeg 9058F6CB-6306-4E88-81CE-4F8B6CA298AF.jpeg 99E294F9-3BA2-4B00-B769-D92B6E4382B5.jpeg E0A5A7CA-4A11-4A4F-AF70-29DA142B42E9.jpeg
 

David 62

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Nov 28, 2004
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It looks right to me.The bone bushings in the movement were a Hoadley feature.The dial and label look to be in good original condition as is the stenciling.
 

Jessk09

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I’m kinda skeptical on the movt. Because Hoadley mainly used his “Upside Down” type movements. But the bone bushings look original
 

Jim DuBois

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Hoadley made many conventional woodworks movements, as well as the upside-down versions.
 

Jerome collector

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The movement generally corresponds with Snowden Taylor's subtype 3.111 (as defined in his 1980 NAWCC Bulletin article), which he identifies as a Silas Hoadley product. I say "generally", because his description of the 3.111 indicates that both the count wheel pinion bridge and escape wheel bridge are made of ivory. Yours appears to have a brass escape wheel bridge. Where things get a bit confusing is that I have an Excel version of Snowden's table, which also contains a type 4.111 Silas Hoadley movement. A portion of the description for that movement follows: "Great wheel pinion bridge like escape wheel bridge and both usually ivory..." One problem here is with reference to the "Great wheel pinion bridge", which should be "count wheel pinion bridge". Also, the fact that the shop details of the two movements in the Excel table are identical violates Snowden's rules. A type 3 and a type 4 should differ by one or more shop details. [Escape wheel bridge and count wheel pinion bridge materials are not among the shop details that Snowden used to build his identification scheme.] I believe this is another example of an error in the Excel version of the table. I have commented on other errors in past threads. However, the key point of the description for the 4.111 is that it states that the bridges are "both usually ivory", which implies that sometimes one of the bridges is made of another material, likely brass. I take this to be a situation where Snowden was caught mid-stream in updating his table (an update that may have involved renumbering from 3.111 to 4.111). The update for the bridge material descriptions probably reflected having additional examples of the movement, which provided evidence that ivory was not the only material used for one of the bridges. All things considered, I think your movement can be attributed to Silas Hoadley without question.
Mike
 

Andy Newcomer

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The movement generally corresponds with Snowden Taylor's subtype 3.111 (as defined in his 1980 NAWCC Bulletin article), which he identifies as a Silas Hoadley product. I say "generally", because his description of the 3.111 indicates that both the count wheel pinion bridge and escape wheel bridge are made of ivory. Yours appears to have a brass escape wheel bridge. Where things get a bit confusing is that I have an Excel version of Snowden's table, which also contains a type 4.111 Silas Hoadley movement. A portion of the description for that movement follows: "Great wheel pinion bridge like escape wheel bridge and both usually ivory..." One problem here is with reference to the "Great wheel pinion bridge", which should be "count wheel pinion bridge". Also, the fact that the shop details of the two movements in the Excel table are identical violates Snowden's rules. A type 3 and a type 4 should differ by one or more shop details. [Escape wheel bridge and count wheel pinion bridge materials are not among the shop details that Snowden used to build his identification scheme.] I believe this is another example of an error in the Excel version of the table. I have commented on other errors in past threads. However, the key point of the description for the 4.111 is that it states that the bridges are "both usually ivory", which implies that sometimes one of the bridges is made of another material, likely brass. I take this to be a situation where Snowden was caught mid-stream in updating his table (an update that may have involved renumbering from 3.111 to 4.111). The update for the bridge material descriptions probably reflected having additional examples of the movement, which provided evidence that ivory was not the only material used for one of the bridges. All things considered, I think your movement can be attributed to Silas Hoadley without question.
Mike
Thank for the information. I was hoping it was real.
 
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Andy Dervan

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The label photograph was not clear enough to decipher the label printer information. That information is very helpful dating and verifying the clock's originality as some label makers did work exclusively for one clockmaker.

Could you provide the label printer information as there is an extensive label printer database.

Andy.
 

woodnbrass

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May 19, 2021
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I have two similar Silas Hoadley clocks in storage, having just now begun to assess the amount of work they require, which is how I stumbled onto this discussion. I purchased the clocks as a pair in 2013 from an on-line seller in Santa Rosa, California. Remarkably, both clocks are almost identical, as though they had been together since new. Condition is not good, Clock No.1 having a broken mirror(non original) and cut-down splat, whilst Clock No.2 has a period N. Currier lithograph very roughly puttied in against the original glass tablet (creating a double layer of old concrete-like putty). I have attached several pics for your interest. Note the slight differences in wording on the labels which are both by the same printer.

Clock No. 1.jpg Clock No. 2.jpg Clock No.1 Label.JPG Clock No.2 Label.JPG Label 1.JPG Label 2.JPG Clock No. 1 Movement.jpg Clock No. 2 Movement.jpg Clock No. 2 Splat.jpg
 

Andy Dervan

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I looked up the printers Osborn & Baldwin in Ted Orben's printer listing database. They were in business 1840-1866 at different locations in New Haven, CT. Since their earliest listing is 1840, this shelf clock was produced sometime after 1840. It is a very late production as wooden movement clock production came to almost complete halt in 1937 when the depression hit.

It opened the opportunity for Chauncey Jerome to introduce brass movement production a couple of years later.

Andy
 

woodnbrass

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I looked up the printers Osborn & Baldwin in Ted Orben's printer listing database. They were in business 1840-1866 at different locations in New Haven, CT. Since their earliest listing is 1840, this shelf clock was produced sometime after 1840. It is a very late production as wooden movement clock production came to almost complete halt in 1937 when the depression hit.

It opened the opportunity for Chauncey Jerome to introduce brass movement production a couple of years later.

Andy
Thanks for that Andy, it is great to be able to approximately date these clocks, as the label printer listings I have don't include Osborn & Baldwin. Looking at some brass-movement Hoadley OG's elsewhere on the forum, Hoadley must have moved on to another printer when he finished woodworks production, as the brass-movement OG labels are of a different format, although a printers name is not evident.
 

Prof D.

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The movement generally corresponds with Snowden Taylor's subtype 3.111 (as defined in his 1980 NAWCC Bulletin article), which he identifies as a Silas Hoadley product. I say "generally", because his description of the 3.111 indicates that both the count wheel pinion bridge and escape wheel bridge are made of ivory. Yours appears to have a brass escape wheel bridge. Where things get a bit confusing is that I have an Excel version of Snowden's table, which also contains a type 4.111 Silas Hoadley movement. A portion of the description for that movement follows: "Great wheel pinion bridge like escape wheel bridge and both usually ivory..." One problem here is with reference to the "Great wheel pinion bridge", which should be "count wheel pinion bridge". Also, the fact that the shop details of the two movements in the Excel table are identical violates Snowden's rules. A type 3 and a type 4 should differ by one or more shop details. [Escape wheel bridge and count wheel pinion bridge materials are not among the shop details that Snowden used to build his identification scheme.] I believe this is another example of an error in the Excel version of the table. I have commented on other errors in past threads. However, the key point of the description for the 4.111 is that it states that the bridges are "both usually ivory", which implies that sometimes one of the bridges is made of another material, likely brass. I take this to be a situation where Snowden was caught mid-stream in updating his table (an update that may have involved renumbering from 3.111 to 4.111). The update for the bridge material descriptions probably reflected having additional examples of the movement, which provided evidence that ivory was not the only material used for one of the bridges. All things considered, I think your movement can be attributed to Silas Hoadley without question.
Mike
Dear Sir (Jerome - Collector)

You seem to know a great deal about Silas Hoadley clocks! I wonder if you might offer me some guidance? I inherited a lovely wooden-movement Silas Hoadley grandfather clock. I have had it beautifully restored by the Clock & Watch Shop in New Orleans, but I am moving overseas and want to sell it, but am not sure how to proceed. I have searched online and the number of online dealers is overwhelming. Can you advise?

With thanks,
Prof A E Denham
 

Jerome collector

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Prof D.,
I actually know very little about Hoadley clocks, but I have access to plenty of literature on his clocks. I posted a reply to the other thread that you started asking how to go about selling your clock. Apologies for not noticing in this thread that you are apparently in the New Orleans area. One of my comments was that your location may determine the pool of buyers, if you choose to sell locally.
Mike
 

Prof D.

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Many thanks for this - I will have a look at the other thread, and am grateful for your reply!

Best wishes, Alison
 

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