Show Your Special American Collections

[Ethan Lipsig]

This is the last part of my 10-12-size Hamilton pocket watch collection posting. All watches are in solid 14k gold cases except as noted.

Hamilton 904: This model was made from 1928-1936. I have three examples.

Movement


#3,063,467 in Hamilton-signed Wadsworth "Lafayette" Case


#3,06,308 in a Hamilton-signed Wadsworth "Lafayette" Case


#3,063,467 in Hamilton-signed Wadsworth Case


Hamilton 923: This 10-size model was introduced in the late 1930s and made for about 20 years. It was the last top-of-the line gentleman's watch Hamilton made. About 3,600 were produced. I have three examples.

Movement


#H995,369 in Hamilton-signed Wadsworth Case


#R951 in an 18k Schwab & Huischpard Case


#R2560 in an 18k Schwab & Huischpard Case


Now, I am done.

 

[Dbailey]

I posted on another thread today from a new member who asked what makes a watch collectible. I posted a brief evolution of my collecting to the present day. I mentioned early rare model 9 Bunn Specials and model 9 Sangamo Specials as being what I collect now plus other rarities. Below are some pics of a sample in order from top to bottom:
Model 9 Sangamo Special 23J diamond endstone
Model 9 Bunn Special 23J Fishscale
Model 9 Bunn Special 21J bright-spotted double roller variant
Model 9 Bunn Special 21J bright-spotted D'BL roller variant
Model 9 Sangamo Special 19 J only 200 made with false bridge
950B Hamilton with 2B prefix only 100 made with that prefix
also being serviced now: 2- 19J true bridge Sangamo Specials with diamond endstones

 

[StanJS]

I love your Bunns!

 

[geo.ulrich]

Ethan and all, Picture of Tremont and Melrose with a couple of stray English Watch strays I have 5 more that are finished not pictured..

 

[musicguy]

I was just looking through my "pile" as Clint would(probably) call
my mish mosh eclectic watch collection. For a short while I felt a need to have a Hamilton,
Waltham and Elgin version of these smaller than 0 size watches in sterling silver,
I like them. They do clean up well, but tarnish just as fast. Yesterday the sun was
shining in brightly through the windows and that is always a good time to take a
photo or two. Here are some of my
micro size watches. There is a Hamilton, a few Waltham's, and Elgin's. One
is in a gold filled case. All running very nicely(or I set them all to the same time...just joking ).

Next to an 18s for sizing purposes

Rob

 

[Clint Geller]

I was just looking through my "pile" as Clint would(probably) call
my mish mosh eclectic watch collection. For a short while I felt a need to have a Hamilton,
Waltham and Elgin version of these smaller than 0 size watches in sterling silver,
I like them. They do clean up well, but tarnish just as fast. Yesterday the sun was
shining in brightly through the windows and that is always a good time to take a
photo or two. Here are some of my
micro size watches. There is a Hamilton, a few Waltham's, and Elgin's. One
is in a gold filled case. All running very nicely(or I set them all to the same time...just joking ).
View attachment 705156

Next to an 18s for sizing purposes
View attachment 705162

Rob

Rob, I've kept company with nuclear engineers for most of my professional life, so the word "pile" has a different meaning to me.

 

[Old rookie]

Clint you described my "collection" perfectly but if yours is a pile mine is a lump.

 

[Clint Geller]

Clint you described my "collection" perfectly but if yours is a pile mine is a lump.

You flatter me, Sir.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

It's a shame that this well-received thread has become somnolent. Thanks to all of you who have contributed to it. If you haven't already posted a discussion and photos of all of your special collections, I encourage you to do so. Here's an index everything posted to date, i.e., in the first 58 postings (if I have misdescribed a posting, please "report" the error to the moderators and ask them to correct it):

• Civil War-Provenance Watches (Clint Geller, Posts ##32-34)
• Columbus PLs (Luvsthetick, Post #42)
• Elgin
  • C.H. Hulburds (Ethan Lipsig, Post #1)
  • Early Stemwinders (Rick Hufnagel, Post #2)
  • Frances Rubies (Luvsthetick, Post #5)
  • Stand-up Cases (Luvsthetick, Post #5)
  • 12-Size Top Grades (Jerry Treiman, Post #45)
• Hamilton
  • Bridge Models (Dr. Jon, Post #43)
  • Grade 400, Tycoon Model (Jerry Treiman, Post #13)
  • Grade 924 (Paul Sullivan, Post #47)
  • Grade 950B (Dbailey, Post#52)
  • 10- & 12-Size (Ethan Lipsig, Posts ##48-49)
• Hampden
  • Early Stemwinders (Rick Hufnagel, Post #2)
  • Gilt 15-jewel (Rick Hufnagel, Post #44)
• Howard, Waltham-Howards (Jerry Treiman, Post #13)
• Illinois
  • Bunn Special Model 9 (Dbailey, Post #52)
  • Bunn Specials PLs with Gold Inlaid Circles (Christopher Burris, #24)
  • Extra Thin Model 1 12-Size (Ethan Lipsig 10-11, and Jerry Treiman, Post #13)
  • Extra Thin Model 2 12-Size and 13 Size (Jerry Treiman (Post #13)
  • Gettys (Vintageguy, Post #25)
  • Grade 116 PLs (Dave Coatsworth, Posts ##17-18)
  • Illinis (Ethan Lipsig, Posts ##38-40)
  • Imperial Specials (Christopher Burris, Post #4)
  • Model 1s in Beefy Silver Cases (Vintageguy, Posts ##20-21)
  • Sangamo Special, Model 9 (Dbailey, Post #52)
  • Sangamo Specials with True Bridge (Dr. Jon, Post #8)
• Matalene-Cased Watches (Jerry Treiman, Post #13)
• Melrose (Joetime, Post #36 & Geo.ulrich, Post #54)
• New York Chronograph Watch Co. (Greg Frauenhof, Post #6)
• New York Watch Co., Gilt 15-jewel (Rick Hufnagel, Post #44)
• Odd Shape (Ethan Lipsig, Post #41)
• Rockford, small dials (Greg Frauenhof, Post #15)
• Scarce (StanJS, Post #37)
• Small (Musicguy, Post #55)
• Seth Thomas, Eagles (Luvsthetick, Post #26)
• Tremont (Joetime, Post #36 & Geo.ulrich, Post #54)
• Waltham
  • Bigelow Kennard PLs (Jerry Treiman, Post #13)
  • 18-Size Model 1892s (Paul Sullivan, Post #47)
  • Riversides (Jerry Treiman, Post #13)
  • Vanguards (Greg Frauenhof, Post #31)
  • Waltham-Howards (Jerry Treiman, Post #13)
• Waterbury, 4-Size (John Pavlik, Post #16)

I intend to update this index from time-to-time if the thread remains active, and to ask the moderators to move the updated index to the top of the thread.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

Another of my special American pocket watch collections is 12-size Lord Elgins. These don't generate much collector interest, and only the 23-jewel versions are uncommon or scarce, but I think all 12-size Lord Elgins are underappreciated and stylish.

Grade 190

14k Solidarity-cased Hunter


14k Keystone-Cased Hunter


Grade 194, in 14k AWCCo Case


False Lord Elgin, Grade 446. This is a late model 14k C.H. Hulburd. Elgin issued them with Lord Elgin dials, muddying the water on what constitutes a Lord Elgin.


Grade 450 Corsican Model

14k White Gold with Corsican Bow. Elgin claimed that the bow matched the profile of Napoleon's chapeau, on the basis of which it named this model for Napoleon. Not all Grade 450s had this bow, however.

14k Yellow Gold


14k White Gold


Grade 451 Classic Model, in 14k White Gold. This was a slightly downmarket 19-jewel version of Grade 450. Few examples had the fancy dial my sole Grade 451 sports.


Grade 543. This was the end of the line for Lord Elgin pocket watches. Until this model, I believe that all factory-cased Lord Elgin pocket watches were cased in solid gold. That wasn't so with Grade 543, which were most often cased in gold-filled cases. Nevertheless, some very stylish solid gold examples were made.

14k Gold with Black Dial


14k Gold with Gold Dial

 

[Paul Sullivan]

Ethan,

Thanks for bringing your thread up again. I think most of us have quite a few sub-categories (i.e. excuses for purchasing more watches) within our collections.

Here are all of my Waltham Vanguards.

01- 1892 Vanguard 6027694 1893



02- 1892 Vanguard 7002263 1895 - 1901


03- 1892 Vanguard 9006378 (1899)



04- 1892 Vanguard 13019416 (1903)



05- 1908 Vanguard 18149677 (1911)



06- 1908 Vanguard 24569651 (1924)



07- 1908 Vanguard 33777616 1952

 

[watchbob]

A collection of 2 detent escapement models & 3 watch school escapement models Plus lg box model

- top left Unmarked detent - bottom left WB Near Humberstone Ont. - middle top unsigned 1894 - bottom middle Jos Mantz Peoria Ill1896 - right no name but later marked ? Albion Illinois - bottom one not shown in 1st pic plaque :Chas Adams 1909-10 St Louis Watch School ( large curved sides box - clock mainspring driven

 

[4thdimension]

It's a shame that this well-received thread has become somnolent.

Somnolent? Maybe sometimes, but not moribund. Here is a sample (about half) of my Waterbury/New England Addison trademarked watches. Only a third of them are running and fewer still run very well. My hope is to get my favorites in order before I pass them on to my son Addison someday. -Cort

 

[Rick Hufnagel]

These 17 sized Elgins from the mid to late 1870s have become their own little special American accumulation.

Oddly enough for me, they are all originally cased (as far as I can tell) and in pretty good condition.

We have ones that are exports or domestic, some 7 and some 11 jewels, a variety of cases, front and rear key setting, Stemwind in OF and Htg, and private labels to boot. Lots to have fun with here.

Here are a handful of them

 

[Dave Coatsworth]

Here's another of mine that might be considered a 'special collection' within my broader Private Label focus. These are private label movements made for Eugene Jaccard & Company of St. Louis. Something I find interesting about these is that they all have a "No." marked on the movement. I have never been able to find any rhyme or reason behind this number, but do enjoy finding new ones. You can read more about how Eugene Jaccard fits into the Jaccard family in this thread: The Jaccard Companies

 

[Clint Geller]

Well, just to keep the ball rolling, here is my Waltham Model 1872 collection, though I have shown it elsewhere. SN First Run AWco Grade 18 jewel movement 670,095 is in a Fitch's patent nail setting case and was one of the three top performers at the Centennial Exhibition, Second Run movement SN 871,163 is the second 21 jewel Model 1872, Third Run movement SN 999,960 has Woerd's patent balance, SN 1,427,904 is nominally the fourth open face AWCo Grade Model 1872 from a short Fifth Run of 20 gold dome movements, SN 2,788,058 is marked "NONMAGNETIC" on the dial plate and has a nonmagnetic double roller escapement, and SN 3,349,025 is a rare private label AWCo Grade Model 1872 (I have seen three, all from the final run of AWCo Grade Model 1872 movements). All have correct glass enamel dials with either three-line or old English A.W.Co. signatures, and all except SNs 2,788,104 and SN 3,349,025 are in 18K AWCo cases. SN 2,788,104 is in a 14K OF case marked "Waltham," and SN 3,349,025, out of the final AWCo Grade run finished in September 1891, is in an 18K case marked "A.W.W.Co."

 

[Paul Sullivan]

DOWN BY THE RIVERSIDE.

(Collection of Waltham Riverside grades)

1888 Riverside16s 6508930 (1895)




1888 Riverside16s tu-tone 7012373 (1895-1899)




1892 Riverside 18s 7026717 17j OF, PS (1898)




1892 Riverside 18s HC 7488127 17jPS (1902)




1899 Riverside 16s 10522311 (1901)




1908 Riverside 16s 17085018 (1908)




1908 Riverside 22328145 (1918)

 

[Jerry Treiman]

(Collection of Waltham Riverside grades)

Yay! Let's hear it for the Riversides.

 

[Allan C. Purcell]

Something I find interesting about these is that they all have a "No." marked on the movement. I have never been able to find any rhyme or reason behind this number,

I have not ever seen one of those watches before, though I might take a look later. I would have thought the No. is an abbreviation for numbers. No.1 No.3 and so on, is the grade number, and the other No. is the serial number. I could be wrong though.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

Although I am not a South Bend collector, have a little two-watch collection of South Bend's top 12-size grade, Grade 431. As many as 3000 of these were made, but I rarely see them for sale.

Circa 1910 Grade 431 in South Bend "Chesterfield" 14k Case


Circa 1911 Grade 431 in Two-Tone Solidarity "Chesterfield" 14k Case

 

[StanJS]

To give an update on my Post #37 (Scarce), I have added a couple of watches to the collection. I now have the OF and HC version of the same grades of a pair of scarce watches. (I suppose having the OF and HC versions of the same watch is another small collection.)

The first is to OF (600 copies) and HC (200 copies) of the US Watch Co "The President":



The second is the OF (Grade 905 - 700 copies) and HC (Grade 805 - 700 copies) Rockford:

 

[Clint Geller]

DOWN BY THE RIVERSIDE.

(Collection of Waltham Riverside grades)

View attachment 749033



1888 Riverside16s 6508930 (1895)

View attachment 749015 View attachment 749016


1888 Riverside16s tu-tone 7012373 (1895-1899)

View attachment 749017 View attachment 749018


1892 Riverside 18s 7026717 17j OF, PS (1898)

View attachment 749019 View attachment 749020


1892 Riverside 18s HC 7488127 17jPS (1902)

View attachment 749021 View attachment 749022


1899 Riverside 16s 10522311 (1901)

View attachment 749030 View attachment 749031


1908 Riverside 16s 17085018 (1908)

View attachment 749023 View attachment 749024


1908 Riverside 22328145 (1918)

View attachment 749025 View attachment 749028

Paul, what about the sword and shield? Did you lay them down somewhere?

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

Special collections are shown in many other threads. See, e.g.,

• Illinois, Scarce Grades: Your Scarce Pocket Watches
• Waltham, Riverside Grades: The Riverside - Waltham's most popular movement grade
• Waltham, Scarce Grades: Your Scarce Pocket Watches

If you know of other threads or postings showing special collections, please send me a private message with the link. I will add these to the special collections index I am building in Post #1.

 

[Paul Sullivan]

Paul, what about the sword and shield? Did you lay them down somewhere?

Clint,
LOL. To be honest I never made it through the first verse, and that was many years ago when I watched classic old westerns that invariably had an old preacher and his following of singing disciples signing the tune. "Down by the riverside" was about only thing that stuck in my memory.

 

[James Wrobel]

This is my collection from Midwest factories.

jjw

 

[4thdimension]

Cool collection!

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

In Post #66, Clint showed his spectacular collection of American Watch Co. Grade Waltham Model 1872s, all of them especially notable examples of this grade, which most American pocket watch collectors regard to be ne plus ultra of American watchmaking. I don't know if any collector can top Clint's collection. I certainly can't, though I have this nice collection of AWCO Model 1872s:

#999,928 in a Heavy 18k Unsigned Case, with Correct Dial: This watch is unusual in two respects. First, it is one of only 120 AWCO Model 1872s marked as having Woerd's Pat. Compensating Balance, which it doesn't have now and may never have had, as is the case with most of the other 120 (100 hunters and 20 OF) that were made with this marking. Collectors prize the scarce watches with this marking. Second, this watch was one of the highest ranked watches in Yale's Winchester Observatory's initial rating of watches.



#2,605,082 in a 14k Waltham-Signed OF Case, with Correct Dial: This watch also is unusual in two respects. First, although not marked non-magnetic, it has a non-magnetic hairspring (white, not the normal blue) and it also may have a non-magnetic balance and escapement. Second, it has a rare dial in that it is double-sunk and in that it has radial Arabic numbers, not the usual Roman numerals.



#2,737,494 in an 18k AWCCo OF Case, with Correct Dial: This might be the most beautiful pocket watch I own. It is in an extremely heavy case. The case alone weighs 56dwt., which at today's gold prices has a net scrap value of around $3650. Its movement is spectacular, but the Waltham factory appears to have turned to the pillar plate to thin it down to fit the case. If these watches could only talk, mysteries like this could be explained.



#3,349,065 in a 14k AWCCo Hunter Case, with Correct Dial: Another very pretty Model 1872, with nothing else remarkable about it.

 

[Jerry Treiman]

This is my collection from Midwest factories.

jjw
View attachment 749315

Nice theme!

 

[Clint Geller]

In Post #66, Clint showed his spectacular collection of American Watch Co. Grade Waltham Model 1872s, all of them especially notable examples of this grade, which most American pocket watch collectors regard to be ne plus ultra of American watchmaking. I don't know if any collector can top Clint's collection. I certainly can't, though I have this nice collection of AWCO Model 1872s:

#999,928 in a Heavy 18k Unsigned Case, with Correct Dial: This watch is unusual in two respects. First, it is one of only 120 AWCO Model 1872s marked as having Woerd's Pat. Compensating Balance, which it doesn't have now and may never have had, as is the case with most of the other 120 (100 hunters and 20 OF) that were made with this marking. Collectors prize the scarce watches with this marking. Second, this watch was one of the highest ranked watches in Yale's Winchester Observatory's initial rating of watches.

View attachment 749321 View attachment 749322 View attachment 749324 View attachment 749323 View attachment 749325 View attachment 749326

#2,605,082 in a 14k Waltham-Signed OF Case, with Correct Dial: This watch also is unusual in two respects. First, although not marked non-magnetic, it has a non-magnetic hairspring (white, not the normal blue) and it also may have a non-magnetic balance and escapement. Second, it has a rare dial in that it is double-sunk and in that it has radial Arabic numbers, not the usual Roman numerals.

View attachment 749334 View attachment 749333 View attachment 749332

#2,737,494 in an 18k AWCCo OF Case, with Correct Dial: This might be the most beautiful pocket watch I own. It is in an extremely heavy case. The case alone weighs 56dwt., which at today's gold prices has a net scrap value of around $3650. Its movement is spectacular, but the Waltham factory appears to have turned to the pillar plate to thin it down to fit the case. If these watches could only talk, mysteries like this could be explained.

View attachment 749337 View attachment 749336 View attachment 749335 View attachment 749338 View attachment 749339 View attachment 749340

#3,349,065 in a 14k AWCCo Hunter Case, with Correct Dial: Another very pretty Model 1872, with nothing else remarkable about it.

View attachment 749327 View attachment 749328 View attachment 749330 View attachment 749329 View attachment 749331

Some terrific, drool-inducing watches there, Ethan. The movements and cases are all wonderful. And that's the only double sunk glass enamel old English AWCo dial I've seen. Even the double sunk AWWCo dials are very scarce.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

Another of my special collections is of 21-jewel Elgin Interchangeables, more commonly called Convertibles. Most collectors regards these 21-jewel grades as competitors to Waltham's American Watch Company Model 1872, and view both as among the most desirable American pocket watches ever made. These Elgins were very expensive when new. Less than 1000 were made.

These 21-jewel Elgins came in two grades, the 3/4-plate Grade 72 and the Grade 91 bridge model. Both grades fit both open-face and hunter cases by virtue of a special mechanism that permitted this, which is why they were called interchangeables or convertibles.

Elgin Grade 72 21j Interchangeables, total production about 450, circa 1879

#607,027, in a 14k Pforzheimer, Keller & Co. hunter case.


#607,101, Bailey, Banks & Biddle in an OF 18k Jeannot & Shiebler case. PL Grade 72s are scarce.


#607,226 in a 14k Dueber hunter case.


Elgin Grade 91 21j Interchangeables, total production about 500, circa 1881-1882

#942,037 in a 14k B.A. & Co.-signed Dubois W.C.Co. OF case


#942,242 in a 14k Dueber OF case


#942,337 in a 14k Solidarity hunter case

 

[Clint Geller]

Another of my special collections is of 21-jewel Elgin Interchangeables, more commonly called Convertibles. Most collectors regards these 21-jewel grades as competitors to Waltham's American Watch Company Model 1872, and view both as among the most desirable American pocket watches ever made. These Elgins were very expensive when new. Less than 1000 were made.

These 21-jewel Elgins came in two grades, the 3/4-plate Grade 72 and the Grade 91 bridge model. Both grades fit both open-face and hunter cases by virtue of a special mechanism that permitted this, which is why they were called interchangeables or convertibles.

Elgin Grade 72 21j Interchangeables, total production about 450, circa 1879

#607,027, in a 14k Pforzheimer, Keller & Co. hunter case.


#607,101, Bailey, Banks & Biddle in an OF 18k Jeannot & Shiebler case. PL Grade 72s are scarce.


#607,226 in a 14k Dueber hunter case.


Elgin Grade 91 21j Interchangeables, total production about 500, circa 1881-1882

#942,037 in a 14k B.A. & Co.-signed Dubois W.C.Co. OF case


#942,242 in a 14k Dueber OF case


#942,337 in a 14k Solidarity hunter case

Just gorgeous!

 

[Paul Sullivan]

My entire collection of 0s pocket watches.

Elgin 0s 320, HC, P/S, #18403885 (1915).

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

Another of my special collections is of Waltham bridge models, of which I have five examples as well as three "almost" examples, more about in a minute.

Waltham only made two "bridge models", both only in its American Watch Company (AWCO) grade, its top grade until it was superseded by the Riverside Maximus and Premier Maximus grades.

Waltham made 12-size Model 1894 AWCO bridge models. As far as I know, only about 600 open-face and about 400 hunter movements were made, although I have seen a total production estimate of as many as 1,853.

It also made 16-size Model 1899 AWCO bridge models, as many as 3,660 according to one source.

Sales of these expensive movements appear to have been slow. Many AWCO bridge movements were exported to the U.K., including two of my AWCO bridges.

One might also view Waltham's Premier Maximus as a bridge model because it was based on the Model 1899 AWCO bridge model. It had a wind indicator, different dials, a different regulator, and cosmetic differences. Likewise, one might view the bridge models Waltham supplied to Howard and Keystone-Howard as Waltham bridge models. My "almost" Waltham bridges are a Premier Maximus and two Waltham-Howards.

Model 1894 AWCO Bridge Model: I had long wanted one of these but they are not often seen for sale. In the last half of 2017, the three shown below became available and I bought them.

#8,774,578 in 14k Case Perhaps by Dubois or Lissauer, with Correct Hull Dial



#8,774,893 Recased in 18k AWWCo Case with Correct English Dial



#12,548,306 in an 18k A&B Case, with Correct "Hull" Dial



Model 1899 Bridge Model

#9,503,666 recased in a 14k AWWCo Case with Correct "Hull" Dial: This is a rare spotted-damascening movement. No more than about 20 were made, of which I believe only 6 are still known to exist. My example is marked as having 21 jewels, but actually has 23 jewels. Waltham made a 17-inch diameter example of the open-face version of this spotted movement for display purposes; it was featured in the Scientific American in 1902. A Mid-West collector presently owns that unique bridge model.



#10,552,410 in an 18k Dennison Case with Correct English Dial



"Almost" Waltham Bridge Models

#17,057,300 Waltham Premier Maximus in 18k Waltham Case Made by Wadsworth: No more than 501 Premier Maximus watches likely were made. As far as I know, this is the very last one made.



#H803,546 Waltham-Howard in a 14k Keystone Case: Howard ordered bridge models from Waltham before it was sold to Keystone. According to Waltham records, this is the very first Waltham delivered to Howard. It was delivered before Howard was sold to Keystone, which is why the Howard inscription on the dial and the movement is Howard's pre-sale name. This example has 21 jewels and the earlier slightly-curved cocks.



#1,005,282 Waltham-Howard in 14k Howard Case: This example has 23 jewels and the later straight cocks.

 

[musicguy]

These two sub collections of mine are very special to me.

These are all of the 16-size interchangeable three finger bridge grade variations made.
Here are my Elgin Grades 91,90,86,85 together.


These are all of the three variations of the so-called Elgin Dr Watches with
a center sweep hand. When I only owned one of the variations I was very excited.
Here are all three together. Grade 84, Grade 83, Grade 89






Rob

 

[Jerry Treiman]

Another of my special collections is of Waltham bridge models, of which I have five examples as well as three "almost" examples ...

My "almost" Waltham bridges are a Premier Maximus and two Waltham-Howards.

Actually, I think you could say they are all bridge models (my preference) or none are. To my mind there is nothing "almost" about the Premier Maximus and the Waltham-Howards. Sadly, when Waltham made their bridge model all they did was skeletonize their regular 16-size train bridge to look like it had three separate bridges, but it is still all one piece.


That bit of nit-picking aside, I also have a sub-collection of Waltham bridge models, focused on those that were finished for the E. Howard Watch Co. A "complete set" will vary in number depending on what variations you consider significant. I count four 12-size and six 16-size major variants. One can expand the 16-size variants to twelve if you break out different jewel counts (17j, 19j, 21j & 23j). I have managed to get examples of all four of the 12-size variants and five of the 16-size.


12-size:
top row - early version, hunting and open-face with circular damaskeening
bottom row - later version, hunting and open-face with Geneva stripes


16-size
top row - 1st version, open-face and hunting with circular damaskeening; these were made with 17, 19, 21 or 23 jewels; I also have another jeweling variant of each
bottom row - 2nd version on the left with curved finger bridges and 3rd version on the right with straight finger bridges, both with Geneva stripes; hunters shown, but these were also made in open-face; all 2nd and 3rd versions have 23 jewels.

 

[luvsthetick]

I was looking at all the very interesting collections that have been posted here and realized nobody has posted any South Bend watches so I thought I would represent South Bend watches with some of mine.

Here are some of my The Studebakers, a 223 and a 229 in 16 size and a 323 and a 329 in 18 size. All four watches are cased in South Bend cases.

223



229



323



329

 

[1908]

OMG this thread is mind blowing. All these different stunning pocket watches in one thread. Everyone of them has a place. Fascinating world.

Stephen

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

Here are two more special collections:

Illinois Grade 410 Macy Lifetime PLs: Grade 410 was one of Illinois' highest grade 12-size movement. About 4000 were made. R.H. Macy department stores private-labelled about 200 of them, under its Lifetime label, with the marketing hook that they were guaranteed for the owner's lifetime. I've collected a pair of these. According to the Illinois expert Jim Carroll, "Lifetime PL 410s have a different finish [from regular 410s], the pillar plate is not recessed on the dial side and a stretched dial is fitted [which means that the movement and dial] don't fit a normal size 12 case."

#4759,523 in a 14k Yellow Gold Solidarity Case -- The original owner, Henry W. Lyman, studied at Yale from 1896-99, but never received a degree. He married Viola Elizabeth Lingenfelter in 1915. They moved to Enterprise, in eastern Oregon in 1923. Henry died in 1948.


#4,759,554 in a 14k White Gold Solidarity Case -- The original owner was a New York-based electrical industry sale representative and amateur photographer.


Illinois Grade 510: Grade 510 was similar to Grade 410s, but they had 14-size pillar plates. Only 423 appear to have been made, although as many as 533 might have been made. About half were private labelled by Hallmark (240 or 250). I presently have a pair.

#2,652,365 in 14k YGF 25-Year C.W.C.Co., signed The Springfield Watch -- I do not collect gold-filled pocket watches; this and a scarce Eclipso purse watch are the only two gold-filled watches in my large collection. I'd likely replace this watch with a good solid-gold example if I could, but only a few hundred were made, so I am not likely to have the opportunity. This watch as its original-signed case, which is a plus.



#2,905,493 Hallmark PL in14k Hallmark Case -- These were finished differently than Illinois-signed Grade 510, akin to the way Lifetime Grade 410s were finished differently than Illinois-signed Grade 410s. I understand that one group of Hallmark PL 510s had a few higher-finish characteristics than the other Hallmark PL 510s. This example is from the higher-finish group.


I used to have three more Hallmark PL Grade 510s, but I've sold them because they were too similar to the ones shown above or were in gold-filled cases:

• #2,905,410 -- Hallmark PL in a Hallmark 14k Case
• #2,905,419 -- Hallmark PL in a Hallmark YGF 25-Year Case
• #2,905.465 -- Hallmark PL in a Hallmark YGF 25-Year Case

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

Another special collection I have is of Cress Arrow-cased watches. I regard Cress Arrow to be among the top few U.S. casemakers. Oddly, I don't have a single American pocket watch in a Cress Arrow case. I don't ever recall seeing one. That suggests that Cress Arrow cases weren't sold through retail jewelers but rather sold only as cased watches with Swiss movement. My collections tends to support that inference.

As far as I know all Cress Arrow cases were either solid gold or platinum.

All of the Cress Arrow cases in my collection were made in New Jersey, except for the two rectangular purse watches the cases of which were made in Switzerland either by Cress Arrow or for it. I haven't seen any other Swiss Cress Arrow cases.

If anyone knows of American pocket watches cased in Cress Arrow cases, knows of Cress Arrow cases that were made of something other than solid gold or platinum, or knows of Swiss Cress Arrow cases for other than purse watch cases, please provide details.

 

[Incroyable]

A collection of 2 detent escapement models & 3 watch school escapement models Plus lg box model
View attachment 748237
- top left Unmarked detent - bottom left WB Near Humberstone Ont. - middle top unsigned 1894 - bottom middle Jos Mantz Peoria Ill1896 - right no name but later marked ? Albion Illinois - bottom one not shown in 1st pic plaque :Chas Adams 1909-10 St Louis Watch School ( large curved sides box - clock mainspring driven
View attachment 748246

View attachment 748242 View attachment 748244 View attachment 748245
View attachment 748247
View attachment 748248

Escapement models are very desirable.

Every time I try to bid on one the prices go through the roof. The nice ones often end up being 5 figures.

 

[luvsthetick]

Another special collection I have

No wonder Ethan started this thread. His outstanding "special collections" are endless.

Thanks for showing them.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

I started this thread and a European/Non-U.S. counterpart (Show Your Special European/Other PW Collections) because I thought many of us would enjoy learning about others' special collections, especially if posters included informative narratives. I hoped that these two threads would become important compendiums of special collections. I believe that this thread has become one, which is why I had the moderators insert a detailed index to it in post #1, an index I will periodically update if special collections continue to be posted to this thread. Sadly, the non-U.S. counterpart thread has not proven as popular as this one. As much as this U.S. thread is a success, its non-U.S. counterpart was a failure.

If I have made too many posting to this U.S. thread myself, it was principally to keep this thread active in hopes that others would continue posting their special collections.

Contrary to luvsthetick's complement that my "'special collections'" are endless, they aren't. Although I haven't quite scraped the bottom of the barrel, I presently intend my next special collection posting to be my final one in this thread.

 

[musicguy]

Ethan, we love your watches!



Rob

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

In Post #89, I showed my Cress Arrow-cased watches. In this post, I am showing my Jeannot & Shiebler-cased watches.

J&S began operations in the early 1880s and was bought by the Dubois Watch Case Company in 1904. See https://mb.nawcc.org/showwiki.php?title=Jeannot_and_Shiebler and https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/jeannot-shiebler-cases.141821/

Along with Cress Arrow, I consider Jeannot & Shiebler (J&S) to be among the top few U.S. casemakers. Jeannot & Shiebler cases seem to have been used nearly exclusively to case Swiss movements imported to the U.S. but, unlike Cress Arrow, I have seen U.S. movements in J&S cases. Indeed, I have one in my collection. As with Cress Arrow, the paucity of J&S-cased U.S. movements suggests that J&S cases weren't commonly sold by retail jewelers but rather principally sold only as cased watches with Swiss movement.

J&S principally made solid gold cases. I think I've seen a few J&S cases made in silver. I don't recall every seeing a J&S case made of any other material, e.g., platinum. I'd be interested in hearing of non-solid gold J&S cases.

J&S did not always sign its cases, sometimes making identification difficult. J&S used the movement serial number as the case serial number about half the time. It added 2-3 extra numbers after many case numbers. I don't know what that meant. Case serial numbers (that weren't the movement serial number) went up over time, but not always.

 

[Jerry Treiman]

I forgot about another of my little sub-collections until I just found myself buying another example. I am talking about Waltham's Opera Watch. They started out, around 1913, with just round cases similar to my new watch -


By 1915 they were introducing some new shapes - octagon, square and cushion. The Dubois Watch Case Co. provided cases for most of these, as shown on the left, below. Within a few years they were making similar cases, with a different pendant, under the Depollier & Sons name (on the right). My round watch, above, is in a case marked Depollier & Sons.


This is a custom-cased example from around 1920.


As the '20s progressed Waltham was producing many more-modern patterns which are not well documented in advertising or catalogs (and which are not represented in my small assortment)

 

[musicguy]

This sub collection of mine is not too impressive, but there was a
short period when I thought that I would go down the militaria pocket watches
road. I did buy an Elgin A-13(B W Raymond) G.C.T Navigator with gold flash and a Hamilton AN-5740(4992b)
and a few Elgin jitterbugs. I learned a lot about these during the process
and you really can get lost in the history (in a good way). I also bought a few
of the "can's" that were used to protect and keep the navigators watches
stable during flight. I have also almost pulled the trigger(so to speak)
on many of others including a 19j I will still buy sometime.













Rob

 

[musicguy]

Not a big thing but I just noticed that in my post above
that I called my own Hamilton 4992b a Waltham (I just fixed it)
I just saw it and my jaw dropped





Rob

 

[musicguy]

Here is a sub section of my 19 Jewel Pocket watch collection.
I do collect 19j pocket watches of all sizes from 0s to 18s.

These are "most of" the 16 Size -18 Size 19 Jewel Standard watches I own(all running and serviced).
I did forget a few.
I recently added the E Howard 19j series 5 in the photo.
These have all been posted before individually over time.
My expert knowledge has led me to believe that 19 Jewels is the
optimum number of jewels for Standard time .
I don't expect to add any more.

American Waltham Watch Co. 16 Size "Riverside," 19 J
American Waltham Watch Co. 18 Size "Crescent Street," 19 J
American Waltham Watch Co. 18 Size "Vanguard" 19 J
Ball Watch Co. 16 Size: "Official Standard" (Waltham made) 19J
Ball Watch Co. 16 Size: "Official Standard" (Waltham made) 19J
Elgin Watch Co. 18 Size 19 J "B.W. Raymond"
Elgin Watch Co. 18 Size 19 J "B.W. Raymond"
Elgin Watch Co 16 Size 19j "B W Raymond"
Hamilton Watch Co 16 Size Grade 952 19 J
Hamilton Watch Co 16 Size 996 19 J
Hamilton Watch Co 18 Size 944 19 J
Illinois Watch Co. 16 Size 19J Bunn Special
E. Howard (Keystone) 16 Size 19 J Series 5


Rob

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Here is a sub section of my 19 Jewel Pocket watch collection.
I do collect 19j pocket watches of all sizes from 0s to 18s.

These are the 16 Size -18 Size 19 Jewel Standard watches.
I recently added the E Howard 19j series 5.
These have all been posted before individually over time.
My expert knowledge has led me to believe that 19 Jewels is the
optimum number of jewels for Standard time .
I don't expect to add any more.

View attachment 753772



Rob

Very nice group. It's no surprise to me that many of them have 24 hr dials as 19j watches seem to have been relatively popular in Canada.

 

[Jerry Treiman]

I don't expect to add any more.

... any more than 19 jewels or any more watches??