Short introduction of my person

[Bernhard J.]

Hello,

I did not find a subforum for introductions and, if I have overlooked such a subforum, I kindy ask a mod to shift it to the appropriate place.

My name is Bernhard, I reside in Germany, and collect pocket watches, specifically from England, and to lesser extent precision clocks. A number of vintage wristwatches has naturally also found their way to me. I like to work on the watches and clocks myself and have aquired the confidence to do this even with complications, like minute repeater.

Using google, I have more or less often found information in the NAWCC forum and have now decided to become NAWCC member and to register in this forum.

Here are a few photos of Englisch pocket watches in my collection, showing the range of my interest.

The first one may be dated about 1700 to 1720.




The next one is a minute repeater hallmarked 1877.





And for the time being an "explorers watch" hallmarked 1903




Cheers, Bernhard

 

[gmorse]

Hi Bernhard, and welcome to the forum,

Many thanks for posting some of your watches, all highly desirable and in fine condition. I look forward to seeing more of them and hearing some background on them.

As you're an NAWCC member, you have access to the online Bulletin archives and this is one article which may have some interest for you, Paul E. Hackamack's work on the McCabe family.

Regards,

Graham

 

[musicguy]

I would like to add my welcome to the NAWCC Forum as well.


Rob

 

[Bernhard J.]

Hi Graham, Rob,

Thank you for your kind welcome.

As soon as the membership has been processed, I will be happy to read in the linked article about the McCabe familiy.

There indeed are a few more to show and I provide the following one as a "teaser".

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[gmorse]

Hi Bernhard,

Hmm, one of Mr. Bonniksen's fine karrusel escapements, but otherwise anonymous.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Bernhard J.]

Hi Graham,

Well, the inner lid is engraved, but this might be an owner just as well as the "maker" (or retailer). "Campbell" is a quite common name.

 

[SKennedy]

Very nice watches. Centre seconds Karrusell is rarer than the 'normal' sub second versions I think. Do you know what duration the carriage rotates in? Off the top of my head I think these are 34 minute? Does the button on the case band start/stop the whole watch as per the typical English centre seconds 'chrongraph' of the time? If so I wonder what it acts on as these normally push something against the escapement but I'd imagine it would have to act agains the fourth wheel arbor on the dial side of the plate.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Seth,

The BM has a centre seconds specimen which does rotate in 34 minutes and there's a picture of the brake mechanism under the dial.

Regards,

Graham

 

[gmorse]

Hi Bernhard,

Well, the inner lid is engraved, but this might be an owner just as well as the "maker" (or retailer).

Given the location of the engraving on the dome, I think it's more likely to be the name of an owner.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Allan C. Purcell]

Güten tag, Bernard. Nice collection you have there, you must have started quite a few years ago. Tell me, are you a member of the DGC. I too live in Germany, but some four to five hours away from Berlin. Good luck with your search through the Forums.

Allan.

 

[Bernhard J.]

Off the top of my head I think these are 34 minute? Does the button on the case band start/stop the whole watch as per the typical English centre seconds 'chronograph' of the time?

Correct.

And here is a more common 52 minute carousel, hallmarked 1903. I recall that there also were carousels with about 7 minutes, but never yet saw one.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[Bernhard J.]

Güten tag, Bernard. Nice collection you have there, you must have started quite a few years ago. Tell me, are you a member of the DGC. I too live in Germany, but some four to five hours away from Berlin. Good luck with your search through the Forums.

Allan.

Hi Allan,

I indeed collect since quite a while, almost 4 decades. Somewhat more expensive watches became available to me about 3 decades ago. No, I am not member of the DGC.

Well, 4 hours is just around the corner (in US terms), so I would be glad to meet you by by occasion, just give me a notice if you happen to be around Berlin.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[Bernhard J.]

As you're an NAWCC member, you have access to the online Bulletin archives and this is one article which may have some interest for you, Paul E. Hackamack's work on the McCabe family.

Hi Graham,

This article is indeed a great read and I am happy to note that the findings about my watch are nicely consistent with this research work. Accordingly, my watch is very late, quite near to the latest one known (#8718 versus #8946), and perhaps even the latest known minute repeater.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[Benjamin E.]

Correct.

And here is a more common 52 minute carousel, hallmarked 1903. I recall that there also were carousels with about 7 minutes, but never yet saw one.

Cheers, Bernhard

View attachment 689502 View attachment 689503

Are the 7 minute variants proper karrusels or could you be thinking of the Robert North 6 minute tourbillon which looks quite similar to the karrusel?
Either way, welcome!

 

[SKennedy]

The BM has a centre seconds specimen which does rotate in 34 minutes and there's a picture of the brake mechanism under the dial.

Thanks Graham. I've not had one of these types apart so nice to see the under dial details. It sort of has three fourth wheels, the one in the centre of the watch, the one that drives below the karrusel which is the one the stop arm acts against. And then on the other end of that arbor is the wheel which actually drives the escape inside the carriage.

Bernhard, there's also a very rare 42 minute 'proper' chronograph version with running sub seconds and centre second start/stop/reset hand.

Seth.

 

[Bernhard J.]

Well, this "Centre Seconds Chronograph" feature actually was imho not intended to be used as chronograph for obvious reasons. It served for setting the seconds hand for the exact time. The escapement was halted with the seconds hand at 12, the other hands set as needed, and the escapement released as soon as the reference seconds hand passed the 12. At least I believe so, this makes a lot more sense than a chronograph loosing the time upon use of the chronograph function.

 

[Bernhard J.]

Bernhard, there's also a very rare 42 minute 'proper' chronograph version with running sub seconds and centre second start/stop/reset hand.

Hi Seth,

I would love to learn more about that, I never heard or read of that. Do you perhaps have a source?

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[gmorse]

Hi Bernhard,

Well, this "Centre Seconds Chronograph" feature actually was imho not intended to be used as chronograph for obvious reasons. It served for setting the seconds hand for the exact time. The escapement was halted with the seconds hand at 12, the other hands set as needed, and the escapement released as soon as the reference seconds hand passed the 12. At least I believe so, this makes a lot more sense than a chronograph loosing the time upon use of the chronograph function.

This is no different from the way all balance brakes worked on 19th century English watches, and that's how they were meant to be used.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Jerry Treiman]

Bernhard - Welcome to our community. I am delighted to see how you have enthusiastically jumped into the discussions and brought your own knowledge and experience to the group. I participate in both the European and American forums and look forward to your contributions.

 

[Bernhard J.]

enthusiastically

Hi Jerry,

Yes, I am really enthusiastic about reading contributions, the knowledge of which go far beyond my rather moderate knowledge.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[Tom McIntyre]

I am happy to have you join us. I have similar interests, but have found it necessary to reduce some of my English collection to make room from a few watches from the McIntyre Watch Co.

I have also kept most of my Barraud collection with a couple of Karrussels AWCo Web and AWCo Web

I also have a nice Bonniksen signed example, but I cannot find the pictures just now.

 

[Tom McIntyre]

I was inspired to fetch my Bonniksen from the bank and take some pictures.

 

[Tom McIntyre]

I took a movie of the watch running and upoaded it to the gallery. I think I can post it here but I have not done that very often...

FullSizeRender.mov

• Tom McIntyre
• Jan 15, 2022

Learning how movies work. Bonniksen.

It was not that difficult, but there is a fairly long delay while it is processed. There is a limit on the acceptable size of the movie.

I think this watch may have been reported lost at sea a bit over 100 years ago. That might have been why I have not shown it before. I may be able to find its record of purchase, etc.

 

[John Cote]

Welcome Bernhard. I think you will like it on these forums. We will certainly look forward to what you will share with us.

 

[zacandy]

Welcome bernard I am intrigued to see your Finer and Nowland watch

All the best Andrew

 

[Bernhard J.]

Reading another thread I noticed Charles Goode being mentioned, who apparently was a rather prominent maker around 1700. I have this watch made by him.

 

[Allan C. Purcell]

I have this watch made by him.

Charles Goode-London.
He was a watchmaker, who was made a free Brother in the Clockmakers Company in September 1686. He took as apprentices: March 1692/3 Maugham James (through John Elton); July 1714 Lewen Bloomer, son of Richard Bloomer, gentleman, deceased. He did not sign the 1697 oath roll of allegiance for any city company. In 1712 he contested a patent application by John Hutchinson claiming that he had made a watch 14 years earlier to do the same as Hutchinson´s, ie wind without an aperture in the case. I have no dates on him after 1714, but he died in 1730. He was a watchmaker of the parish of St Mary le Strand when his will was proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury on 7 April 1730. Several watches are known, also lantern, bracket and longcase clocks (including month duration.) usually signed Chas, Goode London, Cha. Goode London or Charles Goode London.
"Clockmakers of Britain 1286-1700" by Brian Loomes.

Patents. Patents. Patents-Bernard.

Allan.

PS: I do like that watch. Have you got a better photograph of the eagle?

 

[gmorse]

Hi Bernhard,

An impressive early clock-watch, does this strike as it should? I notice that the locking plate, ('count wheel'), seems to be a replacement.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Bernhard J.]

Hi Graham,

It does strike as it should. And it is really loud! Of course you need to "synchronize" it at the locking plate, if one or the other train has run out before the other one (e.g. if both have not been wound up to the end). Yes, presumably the locking plate is a replacement, I would expect the original one to be decorated somehow. Do you perhaps have an image of a contemporary original one? Just to know, I will nevertheless not replace the existing one, because watches of this era must imho rather be conserved than "restored" by adding new parts, which simulate being originally old. Replacement parts made for technical reasons should be immediately recognizable as new. You will also note that at least one screw is not original (form of head and slot). I am once and a while tempted to replace it by a "correct" one, but will leave this also as it is. Repairs or replacements are part of the watches history.

Hi Allan,

What do you mean with "eagle"? The lever in the clock train resembling a bird? I do not have a better photo, but will try to make a better one this weekend. Yes, patents are an interesting matter and specifically old watch patents are fun to read, alone because of the great drawings comprised.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[gmorse]

Hi Bernhard,

Do you perhaps have an image of a contemporary original one?

This is a silver example from around 1685, and as you can see, the makeshift spring biasing the knife edge into the locking plate really wasn't acceptable, so the original spring position on the pillar plate was 're-populated' with something more in keeping.



The locking and warning gates on these are often very beautifully pierced and shaped, but yours is exceptionally elaborate.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Allan C. Purcell]

Sorry, Bernard, I should have said, Griffin.

 

[Bernhard J.]

As long as it is not called vulture