Shaken Rapture GE electric clock quit running – why???

[DecoThom]

Hi,

I put my GE Rapture Model 3H160 back together and plugged it in. It ran well for an hour or two keeping accurate time. However, it was humming lightly. So, I thought I might redistribute oil in the rotor or something by shaking it. The noises changed a little as I shook it in various positions. Eventually the noises stopped, and so did the electric clock. What can I do to get it going again?

 

[Scottie-TX]

You "put it back together":
I guess you dismantled it? To what extent? I suppose you cleaned it? How did you clean it? How did you lubricate it?
I know this reads like a judicial inquisition but often circumstances preceding failure can be clues to reason for failure.

 

[tymfxr]

Just to add one more question to Scottie's, did you shake the clock or did you shake the rotor after taking it out of the clock?
Mike C.
aka
clock whisperer

 

[DecoThom]

Thanks for the inquisition Cardinal, I plead innocent, and ask Robin Hood to rescue me,… just kidding. All I did for cleaning is blow high pressure air through the movement. I did apply miniscule amounts of clock oil recommended by my local clock-smith to places where I see movement on shafts. The clock ran fine a little noisy after assembly, until I shook the entire noisy clock in numerous positions. Mike, I shook the assembled cock. After it quit, over the next hour or so, I dismantled the case, and tapped right on the rotor. Can I heat up the rotor or something simple to kick start it? I have been tapping on the rotor with the base of a screwdriver with it plugged in to a power source. It hums sometimes, and has moved a few seconds. Then it has quit again under power. I loosened the screws that tighten it into place, tapped, shaked, it sometimes buzzes, moves the second hand a little, goes quiet stops,… It looks like I have it screwed down into its proper position, loosened, tapped, tightened etc. The rotor is the usual suspect, right? It runs a little with tapping on the rotor.

 

[shutterbug]

Does not sound like there's a simple fix for the problem, Deco. It probably has other issues than dirt and lack of lubrication. Maybe needs some bushing work.

 

[Scottie-TX]

A picture if possible.
Here's what you need to do.
You need to remove the motor from the mechanical portion of the movement. Now plug in the motor. Does it run freely and quietly? If it does, you're ready to progress. If it doesn't run outside the movement, clean as best you can around the exposed bushings of the motor and lube if possible. . Inspect it's drive gear.
Now if motor runs, then dismantle as best you can the mechanical portion. Some were not made to dismantle - toy tabs - peened pillars, etc. Do the best you can. DUNK 'N SWISH if you can't dismantle it. Dry it of course and lube it, naturally. Again; Check for severely worn bushings and wheels . Assemble. You MIGHT have a working clock. You probably will.
I did this very process only a few weeks ago.

 

[Kevin W.]

I like or dislike the term, Duncan swish.Cool word.
Deco yes it sounds like something is binding for sure.Best to take it apart and see what is happening.Any idea as to what your clock smith friend would charge you to take apart your electrical clocks and do a clean and oil on them?

 

[shutterbug]

Duncan Swish - cool first and middle name for a first born, no?

 

[harold bain]

Sounds like a great name for a basketball player

 

[DecoThom]

Thanks for all the great tips. I found that as I tapped and turned the entire clock works, it would make some noise and move the second hand. Hold it in the noisy position and it kinda’ runs. I then started oiling the gear shafts more and more. It finally started to run continuously in any position. I suppose I finally got enough oil on the shafts and/or flushed out enough grime to get it to run. (I am using Timesavers 23309 clock oiler w/2-1/4” metal tip - $1.50.) It kept good time overnight.

It was still noisy. So, I kept oiling it. Then I removed the movement from the coil and rotor assembly/(motor?). The rotor was noisy. So, I kinda’ followed this rotor rejuvenation procedure: http://home.neb.rr.com/postmodern/rotors/rotor.html However, I used a heat gun on low in the kitchen sink. When it got hot enough, bubbles would form in the oil, and I would add more oil. I periodically just tapped it over on edge and rolled it around. I found that the bubbles formed most under full heat. Now I have a fairly quiet rotor topped off with oil. It still makes a little noise.

I reconnected the movement, cleaned up excess oil, and the clock seems to be running normally, pretty quiet, and smooth.

 

[Scottie-TX]

I have heard - read - about that heat procedure altho never tried it. Glad it worked out for ya! CONGRATS!
With some of those CAN style motors, not really much you can do. Now with the open frame field coil style - they are very much accessible and serviceable. I gather yours is a CAN style.

 

[DecoThom]

Thanks Scottie,

What is CAN? I have just started working on clocks this year – Newbie. I really like Art Deco, and have been collecting like crazy mainly from ebay over the last year or two. If you look at that link, you will see, I think, my rotor:
Rotor Markings:
H3HNK
M2394
TOP
3.6 RPM
60 C
Diamond shape or O, 9105
Telechron

Is that a CAN?

I am also the proud owner and chief mechanic of a 1986.5 Porsche 928. The radiator fan clutch is engaged thermostatically. I rejuvenated the oil with a similar heating method, dripping oil in as it accepts it, etc.

It really helps to tap into the great wisdom and experience of web forum participants such as this to keep beautiful works of art such as the GE Rapture and Porsche 928 alive.

 

[RJSoftware]

Yep, that's a Telechron.

It's a sealed unit. And that's the problem.

There are threads in this Nawcc message board, but you might want to start a thread in electric clock division of this message board.

I repaired one of my telechron rotors (mine is the B2). But what I did was un-conventional.

Here is what the arrangement is. On the thin end that sticks into the metal plates of the coil, a rod with 2 or more disc are held in place that spin at a high speed. Then that motion is geared down with gears assembled between 2 plates pretty much resembling a small pocket watch. The final output is slow speed of the one gear.

The original B2 motor I had, I had to unsolder the two halves in order to get the case apart so that I could look at the movement.

I found that the original motor had a gear with several sheared teeth. The gears are small so there was no way I was going to cut teeth for new gear for it.

But, lucky me, I found another NON working B2 motor at Goodwill. Actually I did not find it, but guy next to me did and I bought it off him cheap.

Anyway, so I put that rotor in (It's called rotor cause it gets it's power from the coil fields) and everything went fine for a little while.

Anyway, it stopped too.

The main problem is because they are sealed, and old, the orignial factory oil that they put in the movement goes dry.

So, what I did is puncture a hole in a safe location at top, so I could flood the rotor with oil.

I wound up putting too much oil in. If you put too much oil in it slows down the disc that spin at high speed in the small side.

So I had to shake the excess oil out the hole. I figure it only takes about a few drops.

Anyway, it worked and it's been working now for months. Very accurate clock. (All electric clocks are accurate cause thier slave clocks, slave to the electrical system accuracy...).

The B2 has marking on it that says TOP. That TOP position is suppose to be up in relation with the way the clock hangs.

I can take a picture of the puncture I made into the case to show you where the safe area is.

Be warned, do not turn the low speed side of the armeture. That is suppose to be bad for the gears. Also don't hold it still when running/putting strain on the gears will strip them. They strip easy.

The rotors are becoming rare and expensive to replace. Taking them apart is not easy. I used a propane torch, some use a lathe.

Who knows maybe you'll get lucky like me. Let me know what letter rotor you have. I will also try to find the repair link if nobody else directs you there first.

RJ

 

[Joe Collins]

David LaBonte has a good article on repairing "B" type rotors.

This is the link:

http://abouttime-clockmaking.com/downloads/In the Can.pdf Joe

 

[DecoThom]

RJ,

Thanks for the tips. Where is the safe spot(s) on the B rotor? The following link has pictures. One shows a solder blob on the edge of the smaller cylinder. Maybe you can use those pictures to point out the spot(s), or post or send a picture.
http://clockhistory.com/telechron/products/typeb/index.html

 

[RJSoftware]

I used (if memory serves correct) a sharp screw to poke through. I did not want to drill and cause shavings to fall inside. Remember, this is a B2, I do not know what you have. Also look for TOP. You can see in pic below.

RJ
http://www.picpuppy.com/safe.jpg

 

[DecoThom]

Thanks everyone for all the great tips!

RJ,

I rejuvenated a B2 rotor through a hole as you recommended. I used a synthetic clock oil and needle point applicator. I poked the needle in deep at various angles to accept many drops. I let it run, then shook out a lot of oil, placed the hole on a paper towel to wick out oil, then put more oil in. Can I just put a piece of electrical tape over the tiny hole, leave it open, or seal it with epoxy, etc.

I also put plenty of the oil on movement shafts. Ran the clock, put more oil on the shafts, and cleaned up excess oil. This seems to be heresy to educated clock people. But, I have thoroughly replenished the oil in the movement and probably flushed out some grime. It is working great on 2 very different electric clocks so far. Any thoughts

This brought an Electrolarm 700 back from the grave. It is keeping good quiet time now.

I cleaned the face with dishwashing detergent, and still want to know how to finish the dial restoration – wax it maybe, any thoughts See thread: How do I clean up brown stains on faces/dials

 

[RJSoftware]

Hey Deco;

Sorry bout the late reply. I guess the best thing to do would be to seal it. I did not seal mine but I also do not run mine as I have good size electricity bill.

I think the rotors do get a little warm, not extremely. So you might get away with using a little electrical tape or metalic duct tape probably would be better (if you know an ac guy get a small piece for free).

About the dials. I have the philosophy that you should do as little as possible to the dial. But, if your talking just a mild cleansing then that's ok.

Nothing looks worse than a whitey white replacement dial or a poorly touched up one.

Wear on the dial is charicture. Adds charm.

RJ

 

[burnz]

Hey Joe C.--what publication and what issue was the LaB article?

 

[burnz]

Hey Joe C.--what publication and what issue was the LaB article?