Setting up my first Morbier Comtoise

[nutmegtinker]

I thought that I was only going to collect CT clocks but, I could not resist having a go at a Morbier. Like the CT OG clocks, they were the People's clock. They are both sturdy and cheap. Just the thing for a novice. So, I picked up a Morbier real cheap from France on that ubiquitous online auction site. Sold for parts only without pendulum and weights. It appears to be a late 19th c. version with an anchor escapement and a coiled wire gong on a sound board. To start, I found a simple "pear" bobbed folding wire pendulum as a test and a couple of tall case weights. I was pleasantly surprised that the movement was very clean with no apparent signs of damage or undue wear. Someone had spent time restoring this at some point in the last 10-20 years so it looks almost new. I was equally pleased to see that it ran happily for its full 8 day course with the test pendulum and weights. The striking mechanism also works as it should. In the meantime, I acquired a "lyre" grid style pendulum. At first, the clock would not run for more than a few minutes with the larger pendulum until I learned how to properly mount the hands. (That unique serrated lock washer) Then, I could get it to run for about 12 hours. Yes, I know it will need to be cleaned and oiled. In the meantime, my question to the forum: am I right to assume that this clock should run with the larger pendulum?

 

[Uhralt]

Yes, the movement should be able to run with the heavier pendulum. It is the later one with the anchor escapement, designed for a heavier pendulum.

A possible cause for stopping with the pendulum is that the leader can contact the side of the slot at the bottom of the case with the pendulum hung. Check that carefully. There may be a bent in the pendulum rod causing this.

Uhralt

 

[nutmegtinker]

Yes, the movement should be able to run with the heavier pendulum. It is the later one with the anchor escapement, designed for a heavier pendulum.

A possible cause for stopping with the pendulum is that the leader can contact the side of the slot at the bottom of the case with the pendulum hung. Check that carefully. There may be a bent in the pendulum rod causing this.

Uhralt

Thanks for the quick response, including the suggestion. The leader is clear but, I do suspect that the crutch (the part that connects to the leader) is not moving parallel to the movement and is causing an oscillation (wobble). This became apparent with the heavier pendulum. I could not get a good video of the oscillation but I have included a photo of the crutch and a short video of it. I am wondering if the crutch needs to be bent at the bottom, slightly away from the movement. It seems this might bring it into line. I am very reluctant to begin bending any rods. I would be interested what others think about this.
morbier crutch

 

[Uhralt]

Your video is posted as a private video, so we can't watch it. Can you post it as public video?
Uhralt

 

[nutmegtinker]

Your video is posted as a private video, so we can't watch it. Can you post it as public video?
Uhralt

Thanks for letting me know. Access changed. I think the photo is what I really need feedback on. It shows how the crutch is bent and the "dogbone" is not parallel to the movement. Would you bend the crutch to align the dogbone strap? If so, what is the technique?

 

[Dave T]

That leader should be straight all the way down. I would try to straighten both (10) and (16) shown in the diagram if it was mine. And try not to bend (10) to the left or right. Otherwise you will have to re-adjust the beat.
Here's a diagram showing what it should theoretically look like.

 

[nutmegtinker]

That leader should be straight all the way down. I would try to straighten both (10) and (16) shown in the diagram if it was mine. And try not to bend (10) to the left or right. Otherwise you will have to re-adjust the beat.
Here's a diagram showing what it should theoretically look like.

View attachment 715943

Perfect. Just what I needed. Btw, where did the diagram come from?

 

[Dave T]

Don't really remember but you can find more here: Morbier Diagrams - Daves Clocks

 

[nutmegtinker]

Don't really remember but you can find more here: Morbier Diagrams - Daves Clocks

Thanks. Those are from the Maitzner/Moreau book. They are very useful. Out of print. I guess that's why they dont even bother citing it?

 

[nutmegtinker]

Thanks. Those are from the Maitzner/Moreau book. They are very useful. Out of print. I guess that's why they dont even bother citing it?

update: I have completely dissassembled, cleaned and lubricated the clock. In the process I found that the suspension spring was broken (one of the 2 leaves). Replacing that took care of the wobble. All the bushings looked good and I pegged them. I cleaned and polished the pivots lightly (no burnishing). The pallets were moderately grooved. I cleaned and lightly polished them but, did not grind out the grooves since I was concerned with maintaining the original profile of the pallet faces. Latest test the clock ran 72 hours and stopped. Here is a video of clock escapement running. Anything wrong there? Morbier test

 

[Bernhard J.]

Hi, looks good and the only comment I would have is that the amplitude seems a little low (seems to have nearly no over swing). Might the weight be a bit too light? What does it weight?

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[Uhralt]

The action of the escapement looks normal to me. Stopping after 72 hours probably means that the problem is elsewhere. Maybe a bent tooth on one of the wheels? Or a problem with the cord unwinding from the drum? How heavy are the weights? Maybe the movement needs a bit more power to run reliable.

Uhralt

 

[Uhralt]

Looking at previous pictures the cords for the weights may be too long. There shouldn't be more than one layer of cord on the drum when the clock is fully wound.

Uhralt

 

[Bernhard J.]

Looking at previous pictures the cords for the weights may be too long. There shouldn't be more than one layer of cord on the drum when the clock is fully wound.

An aspect of some relevance, because if there is more than one layer, then the cord will likely scrap along one edge of the aperture for the cords, see one of the first photos.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[nutmegtinker]

An aspect of some relevance, because if there is more than one layer, then the cord will likely scrap along one edge of the aperture for the cords, see one of the first photos.

Cheers, Bernhard

Cords have been replaced since those previous photos and there is no longer any overlap. But, I think we may be on to something since the weights were oscillating when it stopped. They were descended about half way, at the level of the pendulum bob. I restarted the clock and the oscillation of the weights. especially on the time side, restarted. Might this be enough to stop it?

 

[Bernhard J.]

Yes, such a resonance effect draws plenty of power from the time work. Is the clock fixed rigidly to a stand, bracket, or otherwise?

 

[nutmegtinker]

The action of the escapement looks normal to me. Stopping after 72 hours probably means that the problem is elsewhere. Maybe a bent tooth on one of the wheels? Or a problem with the cord unwinding from the drum? How heavy are the weights? Maybe the movement needs a bit more power to run reliable.

Uhralt

Agree that the amplitude, over swing seems low. The pendulum is not original to his clock. It is keeping good time now that I was able to lower the rating nut on the rod by about 27mm. I figure that helped the amplitude some. Weight is 3.7Kg., not original to the clock but, seems to be appropriate for this design. The strike side is about 700 g. heavier which I believe is also typical for this style clock.

 

[nutmegtinker]

Yes, such a resonance effect draws plenty of power from the time work. Is the clock fixed rigidly to a stand, bracket, or otherwise?

Clock is resting on metal brackets attached to a wooden hanger on the wall. Upon closer inspection, the wooden hanger is bowed and, therefore, not flush to the wall along its bottom edge. This could possibly allow it to rock slightly with the pendulum, I suppose. Maybe I will add a piece of steel bar stock to the bottom edge or, shim it with wood?

 

[Uhralt]

The weight of 3.7 kg is at the low end. 4.5 kg is more common. Have you tried to switch the weights from time and strike sides?
Sympathetic oscillation robs power, as Bernhard J. correctly stated. Stabilizing the hanger might help.

Uhralt

 

[shutterbug]

I'm seeing minimal recoil which relates to the low over swing. It would be good to see the grooves in your anchor pallets. If they are deep they are not doubt contributing to the problem.

 

[nutmegtinker]

I'm seeing minimal recoil which relates to the low over swing. It would be good to see the grooves in your anchor pallets. If they are deep they are not doubt contributing to the problem.

I do not have photos of the pallets and the clock is reassembled at this point but, no doubt the grooved pallets are a contributor to the low amplitude/small recoil. I have worked out grooves on a simple strip pallet in the past but, I believe that I would do more harm than good in this case with my current skill level and tools. Of course, I am always open to advice, criticism and encouragement

 

[Uhralt]

Looking at your video again, the movement of the escape wheel seems somewhat sluggish. It doesn't accelerate much before it hits the next pallet. That, if true, would cause less overswing. How does the movement sound? Do you hear a sharp tick-tock or is the sound more muffled? Check all wheels of the time train for sufficient end shake, maybe there is some slight binding somewhere.

Uhralt

 

[nutmegtinker]

Looking at your video again, the movement of the escape wheel seems somewhat sluggish. It doesn't accelerate much before it hits the next pallet. That, if true, would cause less overswing. How does the movement sound? Do you hear a sharp tick-tock or is the sound more muffled? Check all wheels of the time train for sufficient end shake, maybe there is some slight binding somewhere.

Uhralt

I am grateful for your observations but, also somewhat frustrated since what you are pointing to requires an ear more practiced than mine. The tick-tock sounds OK to me; not as sharp as some clocks I have but, still quite distinct and regular. I did check the pivots for end-play and they are not so loose as to "shake" but they all move freely back and forth in the pivots under light hand pressure. Once again, I am not experienced enough to judge what is "sufficient". These are rather massive wheels compared to other clocks that I have worked on so, I was not looking for the same featherweight pressures as a Vienna regulator, for instance. Does that seem reasonable?

 

[nutmegtinker]

The weight of 3.7 kg is at the low end. 4.5 kg is more common. Have you tried to switch the weights from time and strike sides?
Sympathetic oscillation robs power, as Bernhard J. correctly stated. Stabilizing the hanger might help.

Uhralt

Thanks for the advice. I took your advice and stabilized the hanger with a couple of small (1/2") angle braces. This has allowed the clock to run for several 8 day cycles. I also reversed the time and strike side weights and, if nothing else, it made the strike tempo less frantic. Sorry for the delayed response.