Seth Thomas real repair (with very bad bushing)

Salsagev

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Here is a clock (Seth Thomas) with nasty bushings. Any tips and suggestions? Feel like thuis was a dunk and swished movement based on some weird black spots. Thanks.

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Salsagev

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Sure, will look for them. How much broaching is necessary after the bushing?
 

Salsagev

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FIRST BUSHINGS DONE!!

What do you think?

I used the reamer 3 and used the nibbling method with less broaching. It centered itself out but the last bushing was like a quarter millimeter off set but should it be fine?

I did use some diamond teaming to round things off on some bushings before reaming.

Thanks.

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wow

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Until the pivot fits?
I seldom broach at all. I fit the new bushing on the pivot before installing, cut the hole, and pop the bushing in. Then check the pivot for fit. A 5% lean in all directions is good. Camphering the inside side of each bushing is a good idea so the pivot won’t bind on the edge.
 

Salsagev

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I don’t know what 5 percent looks like but I measured with a caliper and used the bushing chart.
 

Salsagev

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I did accidentally bush 2 extra ones because I got confused when turning the plate 360º.
 
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Salsagev

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Do I also have to worry about burnishing and smoothing the inside of the bushing?
 

Salsagev

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Oh boy, I just read couple more threads and confused myself much more.
 

wow

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Do I also have to worry about burnishing and smoothing the inside of the bushing?
That’s a personal thing. New bushings come with smooth straight holes. Broaches are tapered and re-shape the hole. That’s why I try not to broach. If I broach, I burnish with a straight (not tapered) broach made of hard steel. Some people burnish all bushings.
 
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Salsagev

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I decided to not screw around with the bushings because I chose them pretty carefully.
 

Willie X

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Hope you carefully cleaned up and polished ALL the pivots. If not the new bushings won't last very long.

Your bushing work looks fine but keep in mind that bushings, especially KWM bushings can distort (shrink) when you press then in the hole. And, all new bushings need a tiny chamfer on the inside edge.

Willie X
 

Salsagev

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Haven’t got to the pivots yet. Just the chamfering tool to clean up the edges you mean?
 

Willie X

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You can't fit a bushing until AFTER the pivots are refinished, or at least polished.
Willie X
 

Salsagev

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I see. I also don't know if I should clean first or rebush before cleaning. I decided to do a dry scrape off of oil before doing anything.
 

Willie X

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Clean first. A quick petroleum rinse, when you're done, is a good idea. A tiny flake if brass can cause you a lot of trouble. Willie X
 

Salsagev

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Yes, but there is some like accumulation on the bottom of the great wheel. Was wondering how to mark bushings though so I may do that.
 

Kevin W.

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Marker is great to mark where to put bushings, it is easy to wipe off after.
 

Rob Martinez

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Cleaning first allows a lot of things - better review of how bad the pivot shake/slop is, the condition of wear on surfaces, condition of pinions (gunk can disguise a very worn lantern pinion) and pivots. Repairing a dirty movement will not be as thorough as when working on a clean one. You cant accurately gague your fixes becasue the gunk not only hides stuff but fills the gaps and makes the degree of problem less (or more) than when its clean.
 
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Salsagev

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Sure thing! Very useful info, thank!
 

Salsagev

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Yes. The pivot leans about 10 degrees if I remember correctly.
 

Willie X

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The 5% rule is really not a great rule to live by. With thin plates, like cuckoo's and alarm clocks, 5% is often to tight. On thick plates, it's often to loose.

I just make sure the arbor will go a little past perpendicular in all directions. Then, when the clock is assembled. Check for a small amount of lateral motion at the pivot and freedom to spin with plates in plane with the floor (face up and face down). Spin time is often around 8 seconds for average size wheels in the normal (horizontal) position. It will be a little less when poised in the just mentioned vertical positions.

Note, a slight amount of oil in the pivot hole can help you judge the pivot's clearance.

Willie X
 
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Salsagev

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I am proud that I chose this clock to work on because it had multiple bad bushings and zero grooved pivot holes. Also, the brass was bright. It’s like this clock was meant for me to practice bushing. A bad example would be a clock with no bad bushings and black movement with two broken springs.

I got the entire clock cleaned haven’t deep deep cleaned the spring but I don’t think I will because it should not be bad. There was only some gunk in the center, most I got out and some minor rust on the loop part. Cleaned in ultrasonic cleaner and brushed. No kerosene.
 

Mike Phelan

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I seldom broach at all. I fit the new bushing on the pivot before installing, cut the hole, and pop the bushing in. Then check the pivot for fit. A 5% lean in all directions is good. Camphering the inside side of each bushing is a good idea so the pivot won’t bind on the edge.
I make the bush with the hole slightly smaller than the pivot, then broach from the inside first until the pivot only just fits; obviously, that would be to tight, so I then broach from the outside so there is just enough rock.
A final slight twist on a chamfering tool on the outside and a gentle de-burr on the inside to avoid the sharp corner on the new hole.
 
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bikerclockguy

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I am proud that I chose this clock to work on because it had multiple bad bushings and zero grooved pivot holes. Also, the brass was bright. It’s like this clock was meant for me to practice bushing. A bad example would be a clock with no bad bushings and black movement with two broken springs.

I got the entire clock cleaned haven’t deep deep cleaned the spring but I don’t think I will because it should not be bad. There was only some gunk in the center, most I got out and some minor rust on the loop part. Cleaned in ultrasonic cleaner and brushed. No kerosene.
Springs can look deceptively clean, even when there is a lot of crud on them. I think this is mostly because the crud gets pressed and evenly distributed when the spring is wound tight. I clean mine using Bangster’s method. Slip a Phillips screwdriver through the center of the spring, and then clamp the business end in a vise. Pour mineral spirits on a rag, and stretch the spring out, wiping with the mineral spirits rag as you go. You won’t be able to get the last couple of coils, but they are not critical anyway. After cleaning, lube with your chosen spring oil/grease while it is still in the vise, and then reinstall on the arbor. This method is easy, and has worked well for me.
 
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Kevin W.

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Best to clean and lube both springs while you have it apart.
 

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