Seth Thomas Private Label Research

[SethThomasFan]

Seth Thomas Model 12 - Private Label - Athabasca Pocket Watch

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This 1900 18 size Seth Thomas Model 12 has 7 jewels. It is Century USA grade with the movement markings "ATHABASCA" and "MADE IN U.S.A." It has a Canadian dial signed "ATHABASCA", and blued spade and whip hands. There is no serial number marked on the plate and it was uploaded to the Pocket Watch Database with the serial # ATHABASCA12A.

I do not know who commissioned the Athabasca private label pocket watches from Seth Thomas. Research has provided the following information related to the name Athabasca during the period (1885-1915) in which Seth Thomas was producing pocket watches.

1. Athabasca is a Cree Native American word meaning "grass/reeds here and there". A region in the Province of Alberta in Canada has many geographic places named Athabasca. These places include Lake Athabasca, Mount Athabasca, the Athabasca River, Athabasca Falls, the Peace-Athabasca Delta, Athabasca Oil Sands, Athabasca Pass, and Athabasca Basin where Uranium is mined.

2. The Town of Athabasca located on the banks of the Athabasca River is the center of Athabasca County in Alberta. It was known as Athabasca Landing from 1889 to 1913. Boat building became a primary business for many years in Athabasca Landing.

No one lived at The Landing until the Hudson Bay Company built a Trading Post there in 1884 where one employee and his family lived. By 1889 there were a handful of other Trading Post employees living at The Landing also.

3. From 1888 until 1897 the Hudson Bay Company operated a stern wheel steamboat, named SS Athabasca, from the Landing.

In 1896 the presence of huge quantities of gold along the Klondike River was announced. 100,000 prospectors descended on the area between 1896 and 1899. During the Klondike Gold Rush Athabasca Landing was a major stopping point for prospectors traveling on the All-Canadian Route adding to the demand for in Athabasca Landing's boat building industry. Accounts of overnight wealth for prospectors were reported in the New York Times.

4. About 500 miles downstream from the Town of Athabasca there is an Athabasca Hotel in Jasper Alberta which is also located on the Athabasca River.

5. Starting in 1885 the Canadian Pacific ran a 250 foot long Steam Ship Passenger and Freight Cruiser named Athabasca. It operated on Lake Huron and had a crew of fifty-six men. In 1909 the Athabasca ran aground on Flowerpot Island.

 

[SethThomasFan]

THREE KNICKERBOCKER MODELS

Seth Thomas produced the special label Knickerbocker Watch Co. in Model 13 an 18 size Hunting watch, Model 18 a 6 size Hunting watch, and Model 24 a 6 size Open-Face watch.

This hunting watch is a 1905 18 size Seth Thomas Model 13 special label Knickerbocker Watch Co with 7 jewels. It is Century grade. The serial # is 1750408. The movement is engraved with "KNICKERBOCKER WATCH CO." and "NEW YORK". It is stem wound and lever set.

I do not know who actually contracted with Seth Thomas to produce the Knickerbocker Watch Co. special label pocket watch. Brief research into the commercial use of the name Knickerbocker during the time that Seth Thomas was manufacturing pocket watches (1885-1915) provided the following Knickerbockers to consider.

1. Watch Company
Knickerbocker Watch Co. aka Manhattan Watch Co. operating from 1899 until 1907 at 234 Broadway in New York City and later at 11 John Street until the 1930's. It is not believed that this company actually manufactured any watches of their own; but sold cheap watches made by other manufacturers, foreign and domestic.

2. Railroad Lines
Knickerbocker 1895-1967 New York Central Railroad
Knickerbocker Limited 1902-1932 New Haven Railroad

3. Broadway Theaters
Knickerbocker Theatre from 1893-1896 at 1396 Broadway
Middle of Seth Thomas pocket watch production
Demolished in 1930

 

[SethThomasFan]

THREE KNICKERBOCKER MODELS

Seth Thomas produced the special label Knickerbocker Watch Co. in Model 13 an 18 size Hunting watch, Model 18 a 6 size Hunting watch, and Model 24 a 6 size Open-Face watch.

This hunting watch is a 1910 6 size Seth Thomas Model 18 special label Knickerbocker Watch Co with 7 jewels. It is Century grade. The serial # is 4000513. The movement is engraved with "KNICKERBOCKER WATCH CO." and "NEW YORK". It is stem wound and lever set.

I do not know who actually contracted with Seth Thomas to produce the Knickerbocker Watch Co. special label pocket watch. Brief research into the commercial use of the name Knickerbocker during the time that Seth Thomas was manufacturing pocket watches (1885-1915) provided the following Knickerbockers to consider.

1. Watch Company
Knickerbocker Watch Co. aka Manhattan Watch Co. operating from 1899 until 1907 at 234 Broadway in New York City and later at 11 John Street until the 1930's. It is not believed that this company actually manufactured any watches of their own; but sold cheap watches made by other manufacturers, foreign and domestic.

2. Railroad Lines
Knickerbocker 1895-1967 New York Central Railroad
Knickerbocker Limited 1902-1932 New Haven Railroad

3. Broadway Theaters
Knickerbocker Theatre from 1893-1896 at 1396 Broadway
Middle of Seth Thomas pocket watch production
Demolished in 1930

 

[SethThomasFan]

THREE KNICKERBOCKER MODELS

Seth Thomas produced the special label Knickerbocker Watch Co. in Model 13 an 18 size Hunting watch, Model 18 a 6 size Hunting watch, and Model 24 a 6 size Open-Face watch.

This open-face watch is a 1913 6 size Seth Thomas Model 24 special label Knickerbocker Watch Co with 7 jewels. It is grade 320. The serial # is 3074156. The movement is engraved with "KNICKERBOCKER WATCH CO." and "NEW YORK". It is stem wound and pendant set.

I do not know who actually contracted with Seth Thomas to produce the Knickerbocker Watch Co. special label pocket watch. Brief research into the commercial use of the name Knickerbocker during the time that Seth Thomas was manufacturing pocket watches (1885-1915) provided the following Knickerbockers to consider.

1. Watch Company
Knickerbocker Watch Co. aka Manhattan Watch Co. operating from 1899 until 1907 at 234 Broadway in New York City and later at 11 John Street until the 1930's. It is not believed that this company actually manufactured any watches of their own; but sold cheap watches made by other manufacturers, foreign and domestic.

2. Railroad Lines
Knickerbocker 1895-1967 New York Central Railroad
Knickerbocker Limited 1902-1932 New Haven Railroad

3. Broadway Theaters
Knickerbocker Theatre from 1893-1896 at 1396 Broadway
Middle of Seth Thomas pocket watch production
Demolished in 1930

 

[SethThomasFan]

THREE KNICKERBOCKER MODELS

Seth Thomas produced the special label Knickerbocker Watch Co. in Model 13 an 18 size Hunting watch, Model 18 a 6 size Hunting watch, and Model 24 a 6 size Open-Face watch.

This open-face watch is a 1913 6 size Seth Thomas Model 24 special label Knickerbocker Watch Co with 7 jewels. It is grade 320. The serial # is 3074505. The movement is engraved with "KNICKERBOCKER WATCH CO." and "NEW YORK". It is stem wound and pendant set.

I do not know who actually contracted with Seth Thomas to produce the Knickerbocker Watch Co. special label pocket watch. Brief research into the commercial use of the name Knickerbocker during the time that Seth Thomas was manufacturing pocket watches (1885-1915) provided the following Knickerbockers to consider.

1. Watch Company
Knickerbocker Watch Co. aka Manhattan Watch Co. operating from 1899 until 1907 at 234 Broadway in New York City and later at 11 John Street until the 1930's. It is not believed that this company actually manufactured any watches of their own; but sold cheap watches made by other manufacturers, foreign and domestic.

2. Railroad Lines
Knickerbocker 1895-1967 New York Central Railroad
Knickerbocker Limited 1902-1932 New Haven Railroad

3. Broadway Theaters
Knickerbocker Theatre from 1893-1896 at 1396 Broadway
Middle of Seth Thomas pocket watch production
Demolished in 1930

 

[SethThomasFan]

THREE KNICKERBOCKER MODELS

Seth Thomas produced the special label Knickerbocker Watch Co. in Model 13 an 18 size Hunting watch, Model 18 a 6 size Hunting watch, and Model 24 a 6 size Open-Face watch.

This open-face watch is a 1913 6 size Seth Thomas Model 24 special label Knickerbocker Watch Co with 7 jewels. This watch was manufactured as a 6 size movement that accepts a 12 size dial (12 X 6). It is grade 320. The serial # is 3076007. The movement is engraved with "KNICKERBOCKER WATCH CO." and "NEW YORK". It is stem wound and pendant set.

I do not know who actually contracted with Seth Thomas to produce the Knickerbocker Watch Co. special label pocket watch. Brief research into the commercial use of the name Knickerbocker during the time that Seth Thomas was manufacturing pocket watches (1885-1915) provided the following Knickerbockers to consider.

1. Watch Company
Knickerbocker Watch Co. aka Manhattan Watch Co. operating from 1899 until 1907 at 234 Broadway in New York City and later at 11 John Street until the 1930's. It is not believed that this company actually manufactured any watches of their own; but sold cheap watches made by other manufacturers, foreign and domestic.

2. Railroad Lines
Knickerbocker 1895-1967 New York Central Railroad
Knickerbocker Limited 1902-1932 New Haven Railroad

3. Broadway Theaters
Knickerbocker Theatre from 1893-1896 at 1396 Broadway
Middle of Seth Thomas pocket watch production
Demolished in 1930

 

[Kent]

... found that the Lake Shore Limited and the 20[SUP]th[/SUP] Century Limited were both names of the passenger rail service lines that ran from Chicago, through the mid-state area of New York, to Boston... including the railroad's "water level route", along the Great Lakes shore and Hudson Valley...

SethThomasFan:

That's not quite right. Both the Lake Shore Limited and the 20th Century Limited were names of passenger trains (not rail service lines) that were run by the New York Central System Railroad on its tracks from New York City to Chicago (Aka the Water Level Route).

 

[Jon Hanson]

SethThomasFan:

That's not quite right. Both the Lake Shore Limited and the 20th Century Limited were names of passenger trains (not rail service lines) that were run by the New York Central System Railroad on its tracks from New York City to Chicago (Aka the Water Level Route).

 

[Jon Hanson]

FOR DAVE'S RESEARCH: I have an 18s LS OF full plate Seth Thomas with GILT DAMASCENING in blazing NEW OLD STOCK CONDITION #209,591 signed "Geo. E. Bemis/Charlemont, Mass." on the mov't and George's full name lettered on the sunk seconds Roman numeral dial.

Jon

 

[SethThomasFan]

It would be great to see it on the Pocket Watch Database. There is even a Private Label search function now. Private Label Watch Image Gallery on the Pocket Watch Database

 

[John Pavlik]

I would assume that this example would be what Jon is referring to.

 

[Jon Hanson]

I would assume that this example would be what Jon is referring to.

View attachment 766297 View attachment 766298 View attachment 766299

Yes, it is as mine EXCEPT your dial is of the better style with the 5 min markers in red. Is your dial SS or DS. The damask is so bright and blazing it took several "double takes" to read the serial number correctly! I do prefer mine because of the Mass state connection.

Such GEMS!!! Thanks for posting yours.

Jon

 

[Jon Hanson]

Yes, it is as mine EXCEPT your dial is of the better style with the 5 min markers in red. Is your dial SS or DS. The damask is so bright and blazing it took several "double takes" to read the serial number correctly! I do prefer mine because of the Mass state connection.

Such GEMS!!! Thanks for posting yours.

Jon

John P,

What carat warranty is your case? Looks to be made without a cuvette.

Jon

 

[John Pavlik]

Thanks Jon…yes it is one of the nicer ones … The case is a 20 year as indicated by the numbered paper and case… Correct, no hinged curvette, but a very nice fitted bezel, with glass, to show off the damascening …removed it for the photo… The dial is single sunk with the black line around the inner track… I understand your preferring Mass to N.H. label… seeing it is your home state …

 

[darrahg]

Model 5 17J Adj TT "Otto H. Fasoldt" with DS Seth Thomas dial.

 

[rrwatch]

Serial numbers 212738 and 212739 are also private labeled for Otto Fasoldt, with TuTone damaskeening and single
sunk "Otto Fasoldt " Arabic dials. S/N 212741 was also recorded in Sept .2017 as carrying a Roman numeral dial.

 

[Kent]

Very nice!

Ed Ueberall and I have serial numbers 212738 & 212739 listed in our data base. They both have single-sunk dials signed "Otto H. Fssoldt"

Oops: Ed beat to it.

 

[darrahg]

I didn't post the Fasoldt before since it wasn't signed on the dial. However, I then purchased a different PL that was marked on the dial and none on the mvt. It is also a model 5 TT (my favorite and only ones I really collect) 17J Adj (182). So, here is a P.L. Pinkerton:

 

[darrahg]

18s m5 21j "Olympia Special". Examples can have dials with "Olympia" on them where this one has a DS ST dial.

 

[Kent]

Very nice!

Here's a 1907 catalog cut:

 

[John Pavlik]

As long as we are on ST specials… this is one of my favorites … This example has the Higginbotham Patented hairspring stud ..

 

[Jon Hanson]

Hi John,

Isn't this a Molineux grade?

Nice watch!

Jon

 

[John Pavlik]

Thanks Jon, IF I remember correctly, the balance and lever have the higher grade conical pivots

 

[SethThomasFan]

An 1894 Seth Thomas Model 2 Named Grade/Special Label "Bismark" arrived today. It has 11 jewels, is grade 156, and has serial number 86441. The case is an 1890 Fahys Watch Case Co. – America – 5-Year Gold Plated.

The SS Fuerst Bismark (Steam Ship Prince Bismark) was a was an ocean liner in the Hamburg America Line, built in 1890 for Trans-Atlantic voyages connecting Germany, France, England, and the United States. On its maiden voyage in 1891 it broke the record for fastest time between New York and Southhampton. It again broke its own initial record by more than one hour in September of 1893, besting other vessels by more than four hours.

The SS Fuerst Bismark was not the same vessel as the SMS Fuerst Bismark, which was a German naval vessel in World War I. It was also not the same vessel as the German battleship Bismark from World War II.

American news articles frequently spelled the German name "Bismark" as "Bismarck"; but there was no consistency in the practice one way or the other.

Otto (Prince of Bismark) Von Bismark (1815-1898) was the first Chancellor of the German Empire, in office from 1871 – 1890.

I suspect that these watches were manufactured as promotional merchandise related to the Hamburg-American Line's ocean liner SS Fuerst Bismark.

 

[SethThomasFan]

A 6 size 1895 Seth Thomas Model 15 Named Grade/Private Label "Garden City" with 7 jewels, grade 5, serial number 138526.

Seth Thomas produced the Garden City pocket watch for the Chicago based jewelry wholesaler Lapp & Flershem. The engraved initials, BHA, in an oval represents the Lapp & Flershem trademark and logo "Busiest House in America". Chicago Illinois is the "Garden City".

The Lapp & Flershem catalog is available on the NAWCC website.