Seth Thomas peculiarity

digitalpan

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Oct 29, 2012
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Hi everyone and greetings from London.
Recently arrived for overhaul is a round dial Seth Thomas wall clock. I removed the dial to have a quick look at the movement (marked only with 9 1/2 on the plates) and immediately noticed a couple of parts missing.
IMAG0482_small.jpg
The stopwork has been removed on both the going and striking train, and also the rod that weighs down the strike lever. The escape wheel teeth are nearly all bent at their ends
IMAG0022_small.jpg
but then I realised that the teeth pointed forwards in the direction of rotation, implying a deadbeat escapement (or I believe a semi-deadbeat on Seth Thomas movements), but the verge is shaped as a recoil!
IMAG0481_small.jpg
Am I missing something here, or has someone in the past maybe done something silly to the clock? Any comments would be welcomed as I've worked on very few American clocks.

Best wishes

Ian
 

Bruce Alexander

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Someone has obviously butchered this movement. Most of the Seth Thomas "Hip" No. 44 movements do have recoil escapements but there are some model exceptions. Here's a demonstration video on youtube.com of a ST No. 44 AG which looks a lot like the movement you have: [video=youtube;uOBD5FnG7f8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOBD5FnG7f8[/video] Hope this helps. Good luck with your restoration project.
 

Steven Thornberry

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Loss of the stopwork gears that slip over the winding arbors is so common as to be no surprise. It's almost more surprising when all the stopwork gears are present. They are not necessary for the functioning of the clock, though they do take a bit of stress off the mainsprings. If the EW rotates CCW, you need a verge more like the one below (which, BTW, is on a 30-hour ST movement). I wonder whether the EW tooth damage is due to its making incorrect contact with the verge over a long period.

attachment.jpg

I see TAT was posting while I was dawdling.
 

shutterbug

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I think the tooth damage is the result of forcing a deadbeat to run with a recoil verge too. You'll probably have to make a half dead-beat verge to fit it. Alternately, I suppose you could turn the EW around and make it work like a recoil.
 

shutterbug

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Good eye, Tinker! It looks like the tip broke clear off that one.
 

digitalpan

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Thanks for the comments and the link to the video, very useful. Here's a better photo of the escape wheel and verge:
P1030253.jpg
I also thought it would be fun to show how the escapement was running, so here's a short video!
[video=youtube;-YsxRtVofy8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YsxRtVofy8[/video]
I think I will probably go with a new matched escape wheel and verge (both recoil) as they are available at modest cost here in the UK. As every tooth on the EW needs to be straightened I'm sure something will go wrong, but I'll probably try that as a learning exercise.
Best wishes
Ian
 

shutterbug

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I can't get your video to play. If going with a new verge/EW wheel bear in mind that the number of teeth, the pinion teeth, and length of the arbor have to be the same as the old one. Unless you feel confident that you can put the new wheel on your existing arbor. It still needs the same number of teeth :)

You have your video set as private, so it won't play here :) Make it public.
 

bangster

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When I try to play the video, it just says "This video is private" and remains black. Is it just Me?
 

digitalpan

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Hi everyone, sorry, despite setting the video as public in my upload to YouTube it was set to private. I've changed it now so please try again. I hesitate to say 'enjoy' as it's probably a candidate for the Hall of Shame.

Regards

Ian
 

Tinker Dwight

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I think it is that large drop to the exit pallet
that does the bending. It is dropping almost
half a full tooth width.
It would be good the match the wheel and
pallets.
You may have a power issue converting to
a recoil. Deadbeat run on less power. The mainspring
may need to be increased a little.
Of course, it may be typically over powered in
the first place.
Do note, even with new parts, you may need to adjust
the pallets some for optimal operation.
Tinker Dwight
 

shutterbug

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It's amazing that it even runs with a recoil anchor on a dead beat wheel!
 

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