Seth Thomas No. 2, Very Early 1875

Discussion in 'Your Newest Clock Acquisition' started by tymekppr1, Jan 12, 2012.

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  1. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    Just got back from an estate sale and here is one you don't see very often. Seth Thomas No. 2, I'm guessing about circa 1875. Yep, it has an old, original unsigned movement that is secured by a slide in seatboard and seatboard hooks to hold the movement down. The old lead weight decends down behind the weight shute. The shute slides up and down. I havn't seen one of these in a long time, am I on track about the year? Unfortunately, both glasses are replaced, nut it was done well with old sticks. I wish it still had the original reverse painting on the glass. Oh well.
     

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  2. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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  3. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    Hi Harold,

    I looked at your clock and yes yours does look somewhat newer. I will post better pictures of the inside and back. The wood is extremely old, probably just my photography.

    tymekppr
     
  4. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    Also,

    The piece you see in the picture with a label is actually a weight partician and the old weight slides down the back behind it. I have only seen several of these with this early construction. The weight is old lead, and is square and not brass plated. The weight was never meant to be seen in my clock.

    tymekppr
     
  5. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Mine's the same. The wood shown here slides up about 6 inches to the seatboard to access the weight. Doesn't have a label, though:
    attachment.jpg
     
  6. jacks61fd

    jacks61fd Registered User

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    tymekppr

    Can't testify to the age of everything but the whole suspension and pendulum assembly are incorrect for this movement. This attached picture shows the correct set up for your clock including the wood pendulum rod. This picture is of an early round ST movement but the set up would be the same.
     

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  7. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
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    Hello tymekppr,

    In your last photo there looks to be an impression from a rubber stamp. It's at about 9 o'clock position. What does that say?

    Best,

    Richard T.
     
  8. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    Thats weird, because there are no holes that we be in place for mouting blocks for a round movement. Also, what type of Seth clock would this have come out of, I have examined the clock very carefully and everything is in line and nothing looks like it has been added or altered. The stamp you are referring to is a cleaning stamp when it was previously cleaned by the previous owner. What was the period for the round Seth thomas movements? Thanks
     
  9. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    I have done some reading and did find a very early Terry regulator in one of Horton's catalogs that dates to 1853. The case is near identical to mine with a slight variation to the bottom, but the movement is identical. Could this be an early transition clock?
     
  10. jacks61fd

    jacks61fd Registered User

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    tymekppr

    I was not suggesting your clock should have a round movement in it. Your movement is correct, all I wanted to show you was what the pendulum hanger and the wood stick should look like. The round movement is out of an early seth thomas #1.
     
  11. ClocksCollector

    ClocksCollector Registered User

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    Hi,

    I have a similar Seth Thomas Regulator that I think is early based on the condition of the wood. The case was made from pine. I don't think it had ever been veneered. Someone told me that all No 1 Regulators had the weight hidden by a weight board. Can anyone tell if this is an early model?

    My Seth Thomas Reg No 1.jpg My Seth Thomas Reg No 1 bob.jpg My Seth Thomas Reg No 1 movement.jpg
     
  12. ClocksCollector

    ClocksCollector Registered User

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    Sorry but I missposted the movement from another Seth Thomas. Will post the right one.
     
  13. eskmill

    eskmill Registered User
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    Now you've got me in wonderment. :confused:

    Last November I queried about a similar appearing clock, thinking it was possibly a similar Ansonia. Some responders suggested it might be a Gilbert but the discussion following pretty well ruled out Ansonia and Gilbert saying it more resembled the ST #2 or SB Terry.

    A second look at the case interior reveals a groove in the sides to accept a missing sliding board to conceal the weight. This suggests the clock in my November query as shown in the photos below might really be a ST number one and not an SB Terry. :?|

    I'm curious and slightly confused.
     

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  14. ClocksCollector

    ClocksCollector Registered User

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    I lost my color photo of the movement that goes with my Seth THomas Reg No 1 but found a black and white. Didn't want to take the clock apart. My Seth Thomas Reg No 1 movement.jpg
     
  15. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    Hi Jack,

    Oh I knew what you were saying and I really appreciate the information. Yes, I agree that the hanger is configured wrong, which should be an easy fix. I'm really excited about this one, I have seen very few of these. It need a little fine turning, especailly having the glass redone properly.

    tymekppr
     
  16. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    I need to find some old glass and replace it. When I was examing the case, I noticed that the bottom tail had been broken and repaired, very well I might add, so I am guessing that it probably had a fall at one time. When they repaired the tail, it was reveneered, so its only noticable from the back.

    tymekppr
     
  17. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    What differences were there from the 1860's to the early 1870's? When did the rectangular, front verge, come into play versus the round Terry type? Also, I know that there were two different designs on the glass, so I want to be as correct as possible.

    tymekppr
     
  18. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Your label dates yours to at least after 1865, when the town of Plymouth Hollow was renamed Thomaston. Tran's pictures of #2's doesn't really help much for dating yours.
     
  19. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    Thanks Harold,

    I found a kind of flow chart on Google for dating Seth thomas No. 2's. From what I can tell mine is approximately 1874 to 1879. I am basing that on the style of hands and the lack of a seconds bit on mine.

    tymekppr
     
  20. jacks61fd

    jacks61fd Registered User

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    ClocksCollector and Eckmill
    In response to your question on the age of your clock. what town is indicated on the label Plymouth Hollow, before 1865 or Thomaston after 1865. The pendulum is the fancy Plymouth Hollow type. I think you should have another piece of wood about 1-1/2 " to 2" in height below the label board this would have had a paper beat scale on it.
    Eckmill asfar as the sliding board is concerned the Silas Terry clocks also had the seperator board but with a very small label.
     
  21. ClocksCollector

    ClocksCollector Registered User

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    Boy jacks61fd, thanks for pointing out the fact that my clock needs a small piece of wood with a beat scale at the bottom of the weight board. I never noticed the space before now. Do you have a description/photo of the beat scale?
     
  22. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    Hi ClocksCollector,

    Photos of mine are posted at the begining of this thread. You should be able to work with that, if not I can send you one.

    tymekppr
     
  23. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    So what is the difference between the early Seth Thomas No.1 and early (1875) No.2? The one I have shown I believe is about 1875, and i'm basing this on the hands, case style, the door hooks, no seconds bit. Mine has the early flat weight that decends down behind the weight board. Could this also be an early No. 1?

    tymekppr
     
  24. eskmill

    eskmill Registered User
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    #24 eskmill, Jan 20, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
    After browsing the references to the early Seth Thomas No.1 and No.2 movements in this thread, I think it is safe to say that these with the front pendulum and rear weight fall may have been made for Seth Thomas by S.B. Terry as stated in Dustin & Bishop's "The American Clock" on page 272.

    Further, I have a suspicion that Seth Thomas Company rejected the S.B. Terry design partly on account of the case design which apparently requires removing the bottom of the case to remove or repair the sliding board that separates the weight fall from the front pendulum area.

    The transition from the older front suspension-rear weight to the rear suspension-front cylindrical brass weight might have taken place during the period after the 1859 death of Seth Thomas and reorganization of the company under direction of Seth's son.

    What do you think? Can you remove or replace the sliding board in these clocks without removing the bottom? How many of the early ST No.2 cases have the rebated slots in the side boards but are without a sliding board?

    I have no documentary reference to affirm my opinion but feel free to comment.
     
  25. ClocksCollector

    ClocksCollector Registered User

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    Thanks tymekppr, that will do fine. Funny, I never thought of that!!
     
  26. jacks61fd

    jacks61fd Registered User

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    tymekppr1

    The ST #1 always had a seconds bit.
     
  27. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    So is it safe to say that even though mine has a weight board and the large square weight that decends to the rear, it is still a No. 2? I have been unable to find any pictures of an early No. 2 with a weight board. The estate I bought the clock from had it labled as a No.1, but I agree with you Jack that it is more than likely a No. 2. The more I read it seems that there was really very little difference in the two.

    When did Seth stop making the No. 1?

    tymekppr
     
  28. tymekppr1

    tymekppr1 Registered User
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    Also,

    Mine has hooks on both doors and not the higher end locks that you see on most. Mine are original and there is no evidence of tampering. Why did some have locks and some the cheaper hooks? The hooks I have seen seem to be on earlier versions.

    tymekppr
     
  29. jacks61fd

    jacks61fd Registered User

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    The # 1 Reg. is still shown in the ST 1879 and 1884 catalogs but with an entirely different bottom configuration with finials. It also had a clear glass with a visable round brass weight and metal beat indicator.
     

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