Seth Thomas movement??

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Jeff Fawcett, Jul 31, 2019.

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  1. Jeff Fawcett

    Jeff Fawcett Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 27, 2011
    I recently acquired a quite dirty shelf clock with a label R W Patterson Canada West ( a term in use from 1841 to 1867). The Canadian Clock museum states that "clock pedlars" operating in Canada in the 1850's imported movements made in the USA and placed them in locally made cases. This movement is geometrically identical to the Seth Thomas #80 but the dimension are somewhat smaller than those listed by Duy Ly (vol 2, page 955.) The movement has no i IMG_20190622_134757.jpg IMG_20190622_134757.jpg IMG_20190730_145843.jpg IMG_20190730_100535.jpg #68 R W Patterson-Seth Thomas.jpg dentifying stamp.

    The case is 26*15-1/8*4-3/8 inches. It has cleaned up quite a bit but is still a bit of a mess. The overall black paint is chipped in one place to show a nice oak(?) column and there is no paint at part of the top RHS. I bushed a couple of holes and replaced the pendulum rod as the old one was a mashed up rod badly hammered to fit in the support slot. it is keeping quite good time. The mirror in the lower half of the door is very badly scratched but has what may be a signature in the lower RHS.

    my main questions are -is this a genuine Seth Thomas movement #80?

    should the case be stripped to what appears to be a nice wood grained finish ( oak?)

    should ( or can) the mirror be rejuvenated in any way?

    according to the Toronto second hand dealer the clock was in the family of a prominent family in Kirkfield, Ontario for over 100 years. Written into the dial plate, just above the central hole the name Lindsay, a town not far from Kirkfield, is barely visible. Another nearby name is not readable.

    IMG_20190730_100559.jpg #68 Patterson label.jpg
  2. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
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    You will de value the clock if it is stripped the case, it looks fine to me. I dont see a reason to doubt the maker, great looking clock, may need some tlc but will be very nice to use and have in your collection.
  3. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    The stuff you are talking about doing is not necessary or desirable. It's posible (and easier) to clean up an old clock without screwing up its authenticity.

    That is an American movement. But at first glance, I was thinking New Haven. Others will give you a positive ID.

    Willie X
  4. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Ne’er do well
    Here and there
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    It certainly is very like the 1907 catalogue illustration of the No. 80 in vol. 2, p. 990, fig. 3087. Jane Vakaris' article in the Feb. 1996 Bulletin does mention that Seth Thomas movements made up the majority of movements sold in the time period you mention above, and she even refers to Patterson. (see p. 49.) I don't have either of Vakaris & Connell's books, which might give more information.

    You don't mention the dimensions on your clock; since the dimensions in Tran are from 1901 and 1907 catalogues, perhaps the differences you found are due to your movement being an earlier version. Just for the hell of it, below are two pictures of ST movements from roughly the same period. On the left is a Plymouth movement from a Plymouth Hollow labeled 30-hour weight clock; the other (with that annoying Rathbun bushing) is a Thomaston movement from a Thomaston labeled 30-hour weight clock. They also look like your movement. Both are approximately 4 11/16" high; 3 9/16" wide, and 1 5/8" in depth (outside to outside). See what you think. The Plymouth movement is probably the better match overall, pinned plates vs. the screwed plates of the Thomaston.

    Plymouth.JPG Thomaston.JPG
  5. Jeff Fawcett

    Jeff Fawcett Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 27, 2011
    Thank you for your comments and suggestions, Willie, Kevin and Steven. I will be leaving the case and mirror "as is". The link to the Varkis article was particularly interesting Steven. I have seen reference to it but not traced it down. I think I may have misinterpreted the movement dimensions for #80 in Ly ( vol. 2 p. 955) which I now realise are space requirements not plate dimensions. The plate size of my clock is 4-5/8H*3-5/8W*1-5/8D inches. It seems to be identical to the Plymouth movement you showed Steven but the wire to manually active the count lever is missing on mine. Two small holes in the seat board indicate the position of a missing staple that guided the wire.

    Regards, Jeff.
    Steven Thornberry likes this.

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