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Seth Thomas Lever/marine wall clock? Help with the date?

Gage_robertson_collector

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Just got this clock today for 20 dollars. The glass was loose in the bezel when I got it, so I used a bit of solder and a scrap piece of metal and got it tight down again, the movement, case, and dial all appear to be original and in very food condition. There is a labe on the back of the clock which reads, Seth Thomas, LEVER. I wanted to ask if someone could help me date this clock as their does not appear to be a-date code. Also, where would this clock have been used? I was told marine? Thanks for any and all help. It has been running non stop for the last four hours and keeps perfect time. (I am amazed at how well it keeps time). Another thing, this clock does not chime, so why is there two winding points? Thanks.

- Gage
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EscapeWheel

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This webpage has what looks like the same clock - is the movement the same? Like he says, it's an 8 day clock and the two springs are there to make it run for that long.

Seth Thomas 10 Inch Octagon lever wall Clock, circa 1900 (greenfieldclockshop.com)

I believe these would have been used for marine or locomotive use (see the bottom of your label). The missing part might be FINE CHRONOMETER LEVERS FOR LOCOMOTIVES AND &c (etc?) like the above clock's label.

The top and bottom hangers would be used to keep the clock steady.
 

Gage_robertson_collector

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This webpage has what looks like the same clock - is the movement the same? Like he says, it's an 8 day clock and the two springs are there to make it run for that long.

Seth Thomas 10 Inch Octagon lever wall Clock, circa 1900 (greenfieldclockshop.com)

I believe these would have been used for marine or locomotive use (see the bottom of your label). The missing part might be FINE CHRONOMETER LEVERS FOR LOCOMOTIVES AND &c (etc?) like the above clock's label.

The top and bottom hangers would be used to keep the clock steady.
thank you. The label says one day, but it is actually an eight day judging by how much tension the springs still held after running for a full day. I have just mounted the clock in our kitchen and I made sure to use some large screws on both the bottom and top bracket, although it may not need them I wanted to be safe, (not risk using a small nail, e.t.c.)
 

Gage_robertson_collector

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May 4, 2021
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This webpage has what looks like the same clock - is the movement the same? Like he says, it's an 8 day clock and the two springs are there to make it run for that long.

Seth Thomas 10 Inch Octagon lever wall Clock, circa 1900 (greenfieldclockshop.com)

I believe these would have been used for marine or locomotive use (see the bottom of your label). The missing part might be FINE CHRONOMETER LEVERS FOR LOCOMOTIVES AND &c (etc?) like the above clock's label.

The top and bottom hangers would be used to keep the clock steady.
Actually I have already read the article you posted and I was just wondering if there was a more accurate way to get the date. I am very happy with the price I got it for, ($20) as judging by the limited amount of information about it it is a rather rare clock, no?
 

Betzel

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I have just mounted the clock in our kitchen
Collecting old clocks is a great passion and this is a cool thing you have. It's tempting to hang, wind and walk away because it will run.

Forgive me if you know this already, but they are old, mechanical things that requiring regular care, like cleaning, inspection and and oiling to run without grinding themselves into a major restoration. No different than an old car or motorcycle. If you have someone to service this for you, great. But, if you need assistance finding someone qualified to do this for you, just give us a holler?

Enjoy!
 
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Gage_robertson_collector

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Collecting old clocks is a great passion and this is a cool thing you have. It's tempting to hang, wind and walk away because it will run.

Forgive me if you know this already, but they are old, mechanical things that requiring regular care, like cleaning, inspection and and oiling to run without grinding themselves into a major restoration. No different than an old car or motorcycle. If you have someone to service this for you, great. But, if you need assistance finding someone qualified to do this for you, just give us a holler?

Enjoy!
I have been working with antique clocks for about 3 and a half years and I have owned over twenty clocks of various types so I think I can try to tend to oiling it on my own. I use a high quality clock oil brand, and anything else I do only with approval of a very experienced clockmaker near where I live. I don't think that this clock has any issues with the movement though. I took it out of the case and looked it over, and I was able to confirm it was a seth thomas movement. The movement itself was very clean and all of the bushings appeared to be in good condition, there does not appear to be any access wear anywhere. I did have to repair the glass when I got it, as one of the solder points had come loose and the glass was sliding around in the door. I resecured that so the clock should be all good! Like I said it keeps great time which is incredible to me!
 

Betzel

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Great to hear. It's yours, and all the decisions with it are also yours. Welcome to the board...

A few may do the oil thing, but among seasoned collectors it's no option. It looks fine, but microscopic "ordinary" household dust is amazingly abrasive. When the original or old oil evaporates, it leaves behind a thickened brown paste with years of dust packed inside, which new oil will turn into grease, and people generally use a lot of oil. Gradually, over time, this attracts even more contaminants to the sauce, making its cutting action a bit like valve grinding compound. The clock runs great though, until the wear leads to problems and catastrophic mechanical failure.

Maybe it's not a national treasure (or maybe it is?) Anyway, I like your clock, a lot. And getting a rare chunk of history for $20 makes it even sweeter :)

Want to learn to service your own clocks? Could be cool. Maybe start on an alarm clock though. If not, and the idea of stuff grinding away "hounds" you to eventually get it serviced, you could have it ticking away on the wall for another hundred years or so, while you collect even more of them. The bug bites! Good luck!
 

Gage_robertson_collector

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May 4, 2021
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Great to hear. It's yours, and all the decisions with it are also yours. Welcome to the board...

A few may do the oil thing, but among seasoned collectors it's no option. It looks fine, but microscopic "ordinary" household dust is amazingly abrasive. When the original or old oil evaporates, it leaves behind a thickened brown paste with years of dust packed inside, which new oil will turn into grease, and people generally use a lot of oil. Gradually, over time, this attracts even more contaminants to the sauce, making its cutting action a bit like valve grinding compound. The clock runs great though, until the wear leads to problems and catastrophic mechanical failure.

Maybe it's not a national treasure (or maybe it is?) Anyway, I like your clock, a lot. And getting a rare chunk of history for $20 makes it even sweeter :)

Want to learn to service your own clocks? Could be cool. Maybe start on an alarm clock though. If not, and the idea of stuff grinding away "hounds" you to eventually get it serviced, you could have it ticking away on the wall for another hundred years or so, while you collect even more of them. The bug bites! Good luck!
thank you! Yes I plan to repair clocks and restore them as not only a hobby but hopefully as a job! I have taken apart a couple clock movements, cleaned them, polished the pivots, and I value the importance of making sure to clean them, so there is no dust or other foreign material in the mechanism. I will look over the movement again, and clean the bushings and pivots as needed after using the microscope. I believe this clock to be rather rare, and valuable as I saw another listing for it on eBay for about 400 dollars. Because of this I want to ensure that it lasts for many more years, so that myself and all the future people to own it can enjoy it as a functioning timepiece and not just wall art.(but it does a good job of that too!)

- Gage
 

Betzel

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Great. You do not need to use a microscope, a 10x loupe works just fine (unless you are that curious) just know that it's everywhere. All the resources you need to get started (without ruining your -or anyone else's- good clocks) are here for the asking, book suggestions support Q&A etc. Agreed on this one being a bit rare. So, maybe start with something else that will not be missed if accidentally butchered? We all have our first victims as well as our latest restorations.

All the best!
 

Gage_robertson_collector

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May 4, 2021
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Great. You do not need to use a microscope, a 10x loupe works just fine (unless you are that curious) just know that it's everywhere. All the resources you need to get started (without ruining your -or anyone else's- good clocks) are here for the asking, book suggestions support Q&A etc. Agreed on this one being a bit rare. So, maybe start with something else that will not be missed if accidentally butchered? We all have our first victims as well as our latest restorations.

All the best!
This is true! Hopefully this clock will not need much. I noticed yesterday when I got home it had stopped ticking even though I had wound it the night prior. (there was still a lot of tension in the springs) I am not sure if the clock is actually a 1 day clock and needs to be restarted every 24 hours or if maybe something else is wrong. I set it up last night and it was running for hours non stop keeping perfect time. I will check on it when I get home. Maybe all it needs is a little oil to loosen things up?
 

Betzel

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After a century of unknown-ness, it needs service before it will run safely or well.

And, you may develop those skills someday, and forgive me again, but today is not that day. I suggest you find someone qualified and approachable in your area to make it right, and maybe help you along the path to become a confident clock repairer. A two-fer! All here who have learned in every possible way how to properly service clocks will advise you it is a slow process, and not to start with something you care about, like this one.

Also, those old springs are incredibly strong. In less than a second, along a crack (the one you do not want to see up close) you can lose a finger, an eye, or 100 year old parts you are not ready to make from scratch, and may have difficulty finding elsewhere. Maybe use some of the $380 you saved to get it some righteous love? :) Connecticut is like ground zero for American clocks. There should be plenty of people who can help and guide.

This might be a good place to ask for a suggestion: https://new.nawcc.org/index.php/chapter-148-connecticut
 

Gage_robertson_collector

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May 4, 2021
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After a century of unknown-ness, it needs service before it will run safely or well.

And, you may develop those skills someday, and forgive me again, but today is not that day. I suggest you find someone qualified and approachable in your area to make it right, and maybe help you along the path to become a confident clock repairer. A two-fer! All here who have learned in every possible way how to properly service clocks will advise you it is a slow process, and not to start with something you care about, like this one.

Also, those old springs are incredibly strong. In less than a second, along a crack (the one you do not want to see up close) you can lose a finger, an eye, or 100 year old parts you are not ready to make from scratch, and may have difficulty finding elsewhere. Maybe use some of the $380 you saved to get it some righteous love? :) Connecticut is like ground zero for American clocks. There should be plenty of people who can help and guide.

This might be a good place to ask for a suggestion: https://new.nawcc.org/index.php/chapter-148-connecticut
I am in touch with a clock repair person near my home and he helps me with little things sometimes. I am also friends with the curator of the American Watch and Clock Museam in Bristol Connecicut, so I will reach out to her and ask if there is any mentoring that I can go to to learn more about clock repair.
 

S_Owsley

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To answer your question why it has two winding posts though it is time only, is that it runs longer with two springs sharing the load. I have a 30 day regulator time only that uses two springs to drive it.
 

Betzel

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Great. Again, (IMHO) I don't think this clock would be good as a "learner." Too awesome!!

If it requires two independent springs to share the driving load, it's pretty old. I wonder how long it would have run if serviced and adjusted and the springs are still good --enough. Even if the springs were set, I would consider leaving them in for historical reasons and winding more often. I think I have seen this double driver concept in some old german pocket watches...
 

Gage_robertson_collector

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To answer your question why it has two winding posts though it is time only, is that it runs longer with two springs sharing the load. I have a 30 day regulator time only that uses two springs to drive it.
Are you saying that this is a 30 hour or an eight day clock. The hands keep touching and then the clock stops while I am at school.
 

Gage_robertson_collector

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Great. Again, (IMHO) I don't think this clock would be good as a "learner." Too awesome!!

If it requires two independent springs to share the driving load, it's pretty old. I wonder how long it would have run if serviced and adjusted and the springs are still good --enough. Even if the springs were set, I would consider leaving them in for historical reasons and winding more often. I think I have seen this double driver concept in some old german pocket watches...
Yes I think think the problem was is that the hands were touching. I pushed in the second hand and lifted up the hour hand a bit so this doesnt happen. I will take the movement out and take it to a local clock repair shop at some point so he can give me his opinion on it. I think this is one of the coolest clocks that I have ever owned, so you are right, I will not take this movement apart or try anything risky on it unless I know for sure that whatever I am doing is beneficial to the clocks condition.
 

Gage_robertson_collector

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May 4, 2021
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Great. Again, (IMHO) I don't think this clock would be good as a "learner." Too awesome!!

If it requires two independent springs to share the driving load, it's pretty old. I wonder how long it would have run if serviced and adjusted and the springs are still good --enough. Even if the springs were set, I would consider leaving them in for historical reasons and winding more often. I think I have seen this double driver concept in some old german pocket watches...
Haven't had any issues with it keeping time though! It seems to run on time perfectly without an issue.
 

Betzel

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It seems to run on time perfectly without an issue.
I used to know a mechanic who, when asked what the warranty was on his work, he would say "well, how far away do you live"? If I bought an old car out of someone's yard, I would for sure change the oil before starting it up and "seeing what she's made of," but it's my car to do with as I please.

As you become more technically savvy, you will appreciate the effortlessness of a clock losing its power, not at the full wind, but just as it is about to stop from the final bits of propulsion from the spring(s), and almost no friction anywhere else. If an 8-day will for run (on a full wind) for you okay for 4-5 days full of abrasive paste or with total lubricant failure (which is not as bad as the paste), it may seem great to you. But, after seeing it run for 8 or 9 days clean, tight, lubricated and adjusted correctly, the friction thing will hit home, and you may find yourself on the other side of this.
 

Kevin W.

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Its bound to need the min, a clean and oil. I have never come across a clock that could not benefit from a clean and oil, and most likely this one needs more. Enjoy.
 

Bruce Barnes

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Mar 20, 2004
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Hi, great looking clock and at $20.00.... "stand and deliver !" :))
When you pulled the works did you take any photos of the movement?, like Owsley our clocks are powered by a Seth Thomas #10 and I am not sure of the movement manufacture dates.
This clock of yours will look great on the wall for years to come..........
Merry Christmas,
Bruce#3

Gay Engineering.jpg
 

acaruso69

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Dec 28, 2022
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Hello,
I have a similar clock that has a round case. It doesn't have any label on the back. The movement has the ST logo and the Seth Thomas Thomaston Conn. engraving on each plate but I cannot find any number on them. The escape wheel is in bad shape and need to be replaced.
any guidance on where to find the spare part is greatly appreciated.

20221228_105508.jpg 20221228_105528.jpg
 

Uhralt

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The movement is the ST#10. These movements show up on ebay from time to time. Either as working movements or for parts. If you buy one for parts, make sure you get the correct one. the ST came in two versions, one with a jeweled balance wheel and one without jewels. from the picture i can't teel which one you have.

Uhralt
 

acaruso69

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Dec 28, 2022
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The movement is the ST#10. These movements show up on ebay from time to time. Either as working movements or for parts. If you buy one for parts, make sure you get the correct one. the ST came in two versions, one with a jeweled balance wheel and one without jewels. from the picture i can't teel which one you have.

Uhralt
Hello Uhralt, Thank you for your reply. I think it is a jewels version. I attached another picture. Best.
Alejandro

thumbnail.jpeg
 

Uhralt

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Yes, that's the jeweled version. In the new picture the escape wheel doesn't look that bad, what's wrong with it? maybe it can be repaired.

Uhralt
 

acaruso69

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Dec 28, 2022
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Yes, that's the jeweled version. In the new picture the escape wheel doesn't look that bad, what's wrong with it? maybe it can be repaired.

Uhralt
some of the tips of the teeth are bent and the one of the pin at the end of the arbor broke. I think it is beyond repair.
 

JTD

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Sep 27, 2005
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Teeth can straightened and shafts can be re-pivoted - as Uhralt suggests, this can probably be repaired. Maybe a close-up picture of teeth and pivot would help.

JTD
 

acaruso69

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Dec 28, 2022
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Teeth can straightened and shafts can be re-pivoted - as Uhralt suggests, this can probably be repaired. Maybe a close-up picture of teeth and pivot would help.

JTD
I am very new at watch repair. The teeth look very bad.

20221230_173535.jpg 20221230_173552.jpg 20221230_173621.jpg
 

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