Seth Thomas K&O ATO

Discussion in 'Electric Horology' started by Bill Stuntz, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #1 Bill Stuntz, Feb 8, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
    I recently purchased this lot: Lot.jpg

    I don't know whether it runs or not - YET. The battery is dead. I'm amazed that it still shows about 1 volt. I'm tempted to gut it & install AA/AAA's.
    I have a couple questions.
    Look at the photos of the coil. The coil cover is loose, and when closed, it looks asymmetrical. It seems as if there should be a slot in the wide cover, similar to the one in the narrow cover to allow it to close more completely over the mounting bracket/wires. It doesn't seem to close far enough to be secure. It was hanging loose, touching the arc when I picked it up. Is this normal? What am I supposed to call that thing I've called an "arc"?
    Coil  Front - closed.jpg Coil Back - closed.jpg Coil-open.jpg

    What should I do about polishing it?
    Back.jpg Battery.jpg Bottom.jpg
     
  2. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    The housing does not have slot for the wires. This is normal.
    Toy could is suppose to be mounted on the back piece such that the
    arch can swing freely.
    You might show a picture of the suspension spring. Many fabricate
    something to replace these but they are available from places like
    Timesavers.
    It is best to us a single AA cell. Paralleling them on such a slow drain
    usually doesn't extend the battery life much.
    Your clock uses the external electronics. You might want to disconnect the
    coil at the PC board and test it with an ohm meter.
    The dimple on the coil cover is suppose to be at the top of the coil to
    use as a balance pointer with the pendulum.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  3. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #3 Bill Stuntz, Feb 8, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
    I have the pendulum restrained at the moment, but the suspension spring looks OK. The coil cover had come loose and the end had tilted down until it touched the pendulum.
    When I rotated the cover as you suggested, I found the slot that I hadn't seen but thought SHOULD be there: Slot.jpg
    I had even looked for it, but it must have been rotated into a position that obscured it.
    Here it is, properly installed: Cover installed.jpg Symmetrical now!
    The cover looks as if the brass has split or been cut: Coil Cover 1.jpg Coil Cover 2.jpg
    The way it's curled up leads me to believe it's been cut, but I can't imagine why.
    I wonder if I can re-form it so it's at least flush/concentric. Should I even try? Or am I likely to make it look even worse?

    The coil measures about 3K. Does that sound right?

    As I said, I'm tempted to gut the old battery and install a fresh battery inside the Kundo box. Would that be sacrilegious?
    I want to keep it as original as possible, and a modern extra battery under there would just LOOK wrong to me.

    Any idea about the age?
    Am I correct in calling it an ATO? It's the first one I've even seen in person, although I've seen them in posts here.
     
  4. praezis

    praezis Registered User

    Feb 11, 2008
    463
    27
    28
    Germany
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi,
    the cover is split by its internal tension, put in on manufacturing the tube. This happens quite often. I repaired mine with a strip of transparent tape round the cover, nearly invisible.

    Frank
     
  5. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    #5 Tinker Dwight, Feb 9, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
    As Frank says, this splitting is common on formed brass. Some
    have tried soldering on the back side with some success.
    As for the slot, I thought you meant a slot to run the wire
    to the center. I was sure you'd seen the cutout for the mount
    and wire.
    Putting a AA cell inside the old case is fine and for most, the
    right thing to do.
    I've not had an original battery to rebuild and have just put a
    AA cell clip on with tie wraps.
    The coil sounds like it is OK. I'd expect it to work fine.
    As for ATO, I have no issue with it. As I recall Kundo started
    making these without the proper paper work to allow them to
    use the ATO design but later got it.
    Their design is slightly different but I think the original ATO
    patent was vague enough to cover any swinging magnet and
    coil arrangement.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  6. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #6 Bill Stuntz, Feb 9, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
    I can't believe I didn't see it at first, either. I actually looked for it and didn't see it. It just about had to be down & difficult to see because of the base. I didn't think to rotate it while I was looking for it because I was having trouble manipulating it with my fat fingers.

    IT WORKS! :excited:

    Any idea how old it is? And/or a model name?
     
  7. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    The ones with the external electronics were at the end of the
    manufacture of these clocks.
    Maybe one of our German members can give a date on these.
    My guess is towards the end of 1960 to early 1970.
    The introduction of quartz clocks made many of these pendulum
    controlled clocks obsolete as time keepers.
    Of course, what we are finding is that these clocks outlast
    most of the quartz clocks.
    Kundo had issues with their older coil clocks because of the insulation of
    the interconnect wire degrading over time and produced a corrosive
    substance that rotted the fine wire used for the coil.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  8. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    I saw the rest of the clock on your other post. I love the dial on
    that one. I've not seen it on a regular Kundo so it may have been
    a special for ST.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  9. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Sorry, I guess I should post a photo of the complete clock - with the coil cover on properly. Complete.jpg
     
  10. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    When you are ready to adjust the adjustment weight. Start with it at the
    bottom of the travel. If it is above about the center, the effect actually reverses
    and it goes slower. You'll go crazy trying to get it to work.
    The bottom of the pendulum can be lowered a little if it is too fast,
    with the adjustment all the way down.
    I recommend removing the suspension spring first and checking it for
    cracks near the blocks. It will also drive you batty chasing a failing
    suspension spring. They aren't cheap but available.
    Also, adjust it at the location that you intend to run it. Slight changes
    in magnetic permeability will make slight changes in the rate.
    Even a nail several inches away has some effect. Even different densities
    of wood have some effect.
    Changing the battery will also have a slight effect Try to stay with the same
    brand. I don't like the copper top ones they tend to leak before the cell
    runs down. I have had the best luck with Rayovac although harder to find.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  11. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks for all the advice! I've gutted the old battery and ordered a 1xAA battery holder to stuff inside. I haven't actually tried to run it for more than just a few minutes while holding the wires on a AAA's terminals. Any idea what the beat rate should be?

    I haven't tried Frank's Scotch Tape suggestion on the coil cover. The cover feels pretty secure - once it's been rotated into the proper position. :chuckling: I'm debating about just leaving it as-is. Due to the position of the splits, they're ALMOST concealed by the dial, and are not very noticeable unless you're actually looking for them. The tape might be more visible than the splits.

    I have all 4 leveling feet, but a couple of them are missing the rubber bumpers on the bottom.

    Looking at this photo, you can see that the brass needs a bit of work. I have a can of NEVR-DULL. Would that be the right stuff to use? Back.jpg
     
  12. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have the exact clock that I picked up at an estate sale several months back. I noticed the split casing around the coil...thought maybe I'd use some kind of glue like E6000 to get the split pieces to lay down...but I'll probably just leave it. Mine has a small plaque on the back...it was a retirement gift to someone at Southwestern Bell...I've managed to find his name in the ancestry database...born in New Jersey and passed away here in San Antonio about a dozen years ago.

    As for batteries, Timesavers still sells the dry cell battery pack that fits the spot under the clock. For the same price, The Horolovar Store has a 2-cell AA adapter that would work. Unfortunately, the adapter is out of stock...hopefully they'll have some in soon. In the meantime, I've rigged a single AA battery up on the outside just to keep it running.

    My issue has been with regulation. It's been running pretty slow, maybe off by a minute every couple of hours. I've been adjusting the pendulum, turning towards the + sign. Have turned it maybe a complete revolution by now and am not sure I'm making much progress on that. Tinker, I'm not sure I followed what you were saying about adjustments.

    Kurt
     
  13. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I'm pretty sure that what he's getting at is that the "bell" is above the center of mass of the pendulum.
     
  14. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    #14 Tinker Dwight, Feb 11, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
    The beat on these is a nice 3 per second or 10800 per hour.
    They are sensitive to the thickness of suspension spring. It
    takes a long time to adjust them without a timer.
    Putting more than a single cell in them has little effect on the run time.
    Slight differences in the cells will mean that one cell will set the
    discharge rate and the others will charge it.
    If the clock is running right, you'll get more than a year from a single
    AA cell. They should be changed about every year anyway. A leaking
    alkaline cell can do a lot of damage.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  15. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Well, I'll keep turning the adjuster, then. I don't have an electronic timer.

    Kurt
     
  16. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    As I noted, once it reaches the center of the pendulum rod,
    it does no good to keep turning is as it will start to make it
    slower again.
    It is a fine adjustment, though.
    If you can't get it slow enough by then, check the suspension
    spring carefully for cracks near the blocks.
    If not, the position of the bob can be adjusted. This requires
    taking it all apart, since it is threaded on the rod.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  17. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    I should note that it only ticks with no toc. On a timer with sound
    pickup it might be easier to set it at 5400.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  18. praezis

    praezis Registered User

    Feb 11, 2008
    463
    27
    28
    Germany
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Didn't Kurt say,it is too slow? Maybe the pawl misses a tooth now and then.


    Frank
     
  19. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    Quite possible Frank.
    If it has oil on it it is likely. Like I said, these clocks run fine without
    oil. I only put a tiny film on them to help protect against corrosion.
    It is the not anywhere near the amount used to lubricate.
    The pawl should have no oil on it.
    There are some adjustment screws but unless fiddled with, it shouldn't
    miss.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  20. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    When I first got it, I studied the action. I saw that the pawl was occasionally catching every other tooth. I adjusted it so that it catches only one tooth. Seems like if it caught every other tooth, the clock would gain an incredible amount of time.

    I made an adjustment not that long ago...I'm much closer after about 1-2 hours. I think it's starting to take effect.

    Kurt
     
  21. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    It always helps to keep a simple log and note the effect
    of each adjustment.
    Like most clocks, the weight adjustment is not linear.
    It has more effect per turn moving down and less effect
    per turn moving up.
    You are less likely to overshoot going up is you adjust based
    on the calculations of the log.
     
  22. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
  23. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Finally something for Android!! I've download Clock Tuner...now to just see how it works.

    Kurt
     
  24. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #24 Bill Stuntz, Feb 11, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
    My weird tap on the screen or KB thing works pretty well if you have any sense of rhythm. It works in any browser that supports Java. PC, tablet, phone, whatever.
    Clock Tuner REQUIRES a quiet location so the only thing it hears is the clock you're interested in. It gets rather confused if you place your phone between 2 loud clocks! :D

    Sorry about the typo's. This was the first time I had actually posted from my cell phone. I was working on my wife's car when I saw your post.
     
  25. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks, Bill. I think Clock Tuner would be better if you buy the app...not ready to do that...can't quite make out what it's telling me on the free one. But the other tap on the keyboard program was interesting. I did that and was seeing maybe 53xx beats per hour, which is consistently slower than what Tinker said it should be, 5400 BPH.

    Kurt
     
  26. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #26 Bill Stuntz, Feb 11, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
    I found it interesting just how quickly that tapping thing zeros in on a consistent value. But it doesn't work very well for people with "tin ears." As a musician, it comes very naturally to me.
    Of course with THIS clock that doesn't tock, the calculated beat percentage is meaningless. It assumes tick, tock, tick, tock, not tick, tick, tick.
    I did a lot of reworking of a square dance tempo calculator to fine-tune it for clocks. I can't afford an electronic timer, but I DID buy the paid version of Clock Tuner. It was cheap enough for my budget. It does seem to work a little better.
     
  27. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    You said it was running slow. That is slow.
    All the Kundos are 3bps to my knowledge.
    My Haller clock is an oddball number.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  28. dennishoy

    dennishoy Registered User

    Nov 6, 2010
    100
    1
    0
    Hampshire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I've found that the type of battery can affect the time keeping by diverting some of the magnetic field.
    Original zinc batteries had no metal case but those dreadful Duracell types have a steel case which can cause problems.
    I have found the type that take a 'C' size cell are worse affected and have proved it by hanging the battery on fly-leads a few inches away from the clock after which the time keeping was fine.
    Another 'quirk' I found was that if I put several of these clocks side-by-side as close as possible, then after few minutes, all the pendulum(s) move together in harmony.
    This was most obvious with the German Schatz type.
     
    BLKBEARD likes this.
  29. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    So, I've turned the adjuster probably 5 complete revolutions and the clock is still running the same amount slow. Do I need to take the pendulum off and fix something or is there another way to regulate the time on these clocks?

    Kurt
     
  30. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    Is it at the center of the pendulum?
    Are you logging changes?
    Tinker Dwight
     
  31. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Not sure what you mean by "center of the pendulum". The regulator is above the arc that runs through coil.

    No, I've not been logging...sorry about that. But the big picture is that I've been about 5-7 minutes slow overnight no matter where I rotate the adjuster. I had the idea that maybe the use of the + and - were reversed on this clock. I've been cranking the regulator many times towards the +. Earlier, I decided to move it towards the - and it's still the same amount of slow...just from general observation. I was encouraged with this direction of regulation after I used the key-tap beat counter...was getting around 5400 BPH but the clock is still loosing time.

    Kurt
     
  32. BLKBEARD

    BLKBEARD Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 15, 2016
    759
    24
    18
    HVAC, MECHANIC, CLOCK REPAIRER
    CT
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    That's a very kool observation...............Whoooda thunkit............The type of battery case effecting time keeping.
    I'm really not into electric clocks, but I've had several over the years. And till now, I thought all I needed was the proper voltage battery.

    And the pendulums sincing up is pretty neat too. Good one for the Science Guy on TV.
     
  33. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I'm not sure this is necessarily related to the magnetic fields. I'm pretty sure it happens with spring or weight driven pendulums too. Especially if there's any "give" in the shelf.
     
  34. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    When the adjuster reaches about half way, it stops going faster and begins to go slower
    again.
    It is related to the stuff I've been complaining about on talking about moving the center
    of gravity up to make it go faster. It is bad thinking and fails when looking at things
    like moving additional weights, other than those with a single ball at the end of a string.
    I'd asked you to log to see if you were above the point where it starts to slow the pendulum
    again. If you are above that point, you need to be below it.
    When you are having rate problems, logging is important otherwise you can be
    wasting weeks and not get anywhere.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  35. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #35 KurtinSA, Feb 13, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
    Tinker -

    I've started a log. I'll wait for 24 hours and make a change. After about 2 hours, I was already about 45 seconds slow.

    Seems strange that the adjuster has the simple +/- with no notice for "oops you've gone too far". Given the massive bar/fixture that arcs through the coil, I'm having a hard time seeing how the movement of the adjuster could flip the center of gravity one way or the other.

    Kurt
     
  36. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    #36 Tinker Dwight, Feb 13, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017


    I keep telling you to dump the center of gravity thinking. It is just absolutely wrong.
    The equation is T=2*Pi*sqrt( sum(M*L^2/(g*sum(M*L))
    sum(M*L) is the calculation for the center of gravity. Notice it is divided into the other number.
    What happen when you divide a number by a larger number? Does the result get bigger or
    smaller?
    The calculation clearly shows that if you only changed by moving the center of gravity down,
    the clock would run faster, not slower!!!!
    So, the thinking in terms of the center of gravity by itself is flawed.
    What is making the pendulum slower when you lower the bob?
    It is the number that is being divided that is growing faster then the center of gravity is
    speeding it up. That is the term sum(M*L^2).
    That is the inertial term. If you try to move something heavy, that is
    on a frictionless surface, what keeps it from
    flying off at 100 miles an hour?
    It is INERTIA!
    Rotational inertia is the mass times the distance squared form the center of rotation.
    What then controls the speed of a pendulum?
    Gravity is pulling at the CG, trying to make it go faster.
    Rotational inertia is trying to make it go slower.
    When the adjustment weight is just above the main bob, moving it up
    reduces the rotational inertia faster than it reduces the CG.
    So, the CG wins and the pendulum goes faster.
    As the small weight crosses the center, the CG is being reduced
    faster than the rotational inertia. Gravity has less to pull on and there is
    little change in the total rotational inertia of the entire pendulum.
    The pendulum slows.
    The point is, on these clocks you can rotate the adjuster past the point that
    it makes it run faster ( I did this by accident but quickly realized it by looking
    at the change in rate ).
    Now, the point about approximately the center of the pendulum. There are a number of other
    masses on the pendulum in question. Without experimenting and measuring. I couldn't
    tell you where it flipped over. I do know it does, just not exactly where.
    So, when talking about making a pendulum go faster, stop saying that it was because
    you moved the CG up. Looking at the equation, it alone should have the opposite effect.
    What is making it go faster is reducing the rotational inertia faster than moving the CG.
    I hope this helps a little. I realize this CG thing is ingrained into peoples thinking.
    It is wrong and confusing, especially when the pendulum has more than one weight.
    I try to educate on this but old timers refuse to change their thinking and pass on
    wrong information to the new people.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  37. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Tinker -

    I guess I mentioned CG because you had mentioned it...but now I see that you have been "complaining" about that notion.

    Certainly, there are several things going on. I can't remember anyone suggested that movement of the bob weight on a "regular" pendulum clock must be considered in this same way. I've only heard that moving it down slows the clock down. Is the difference due to how far away from the rotational inertia center these bob weights are, such that gravity is the dominant force?

    Update...after 6 hours, I'm 2m30s slow.

    Kurt
     
  38. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    I looked back through my post and couldn't find where I mentioned
    the CG. I'm usually careful to not mention it.
    Now, you should adjust the bob some and note both
    the direction, + or -, and the amount.
    You'll need this information to determine what you want to do next.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  39. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #39 Bill Stuntz, Feb 14, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
    I got my AA battery holder in the mail today. I gutted the dead Kundo 825 battery, soldered the wires to the terminals inside the lid, and hot glued the AA holder to the inside of the lid. With the lid on, it looks 100% original. The AA holder is a friction fit in the Kundo battery case, so the lid stays on. And I can just slide it out to change the battery.

    Now that I can actually run it, I've noticed that it actually does tick..tock, but the tock is softer and VERY different from the tick when it hits the pawl. Clock Tuner can't seem to make up its mind whether it's hearing 10800 or 21600bph. It seems to randomly lock into one or the other. Maybe I can adjust the audio sensitivity to get it to ignore the tocks, but I may not bother. Whichever one it picks, it's now reporting an error of +/- about 30 seconds per day. I had to rotate the "bell" to get it that close. It was reporting N/A error and about 20000bph looking for 21600 when I first started it.

    P.S. With the dome on, my phone laying flat on top, and CT's audio sensitivity set to medium, it auto-locks onto a target rate of 10800 consistently.
     
  40. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    After 24 hours, the clock was 10min 30sec slow. I turned the adjuster one full turn towards the + sign.

    I just checked after 3 hours, the clock is 1min 5 sec slow. Multiply by 8 for 24 hours, the estimated time deviation will be 8 min 40 sec slow. I guess that's some progress. I'll verify after 24 hours.

    Kurt
     
  41. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    If you can get the free version of Clock Tuner or that tapping program to work for you, you can get it pretty close in just a few minutes. Adjust, let it stabilize for a couple minutes, adjust again, repeat until it's close. Then see how close it actually IS after 24 hours or so. That attack plan works very well for me. That's what I did last night, and it looks like I'm maybe 45 seconds slow after however many hours it's been. It's hard to tell without a second hand.
     
  42. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have the free version and did what you suggested...I set it on top of the clock case. It's on medium sensitivity and in the Auto mode. After a number of sections of sampling it showed 10800. It seems to only show set numbers, nothing that is specific to any beat rate. I don't find the free version to be that useful.

    I just retried the tapping program...I'm getting numbers around 5400, some higher, some lower. Seems like that should mean the clock's set?? In reality, I'm still running slow.

    Kurt
     
  43. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    Going to faster, the adjustment, adjust less each turn. Based on that, I'd turn it
    4.5 times +.
    Do remember to run it where you intend to run it. It is sensitive to the
    near by environment.
    Dwight
     
  44. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I don't remember the free version very well, but my recollection is that the main reason I went to the paid version was that it allows custom target beat rates. If I recall correctly, the rate for my ST124 (10584) wasn't included in the free version's selections. It SHOULD show the target rate on the top line, and the actual measured rate below that. If the target and measured are too far apart, it will show N/A in the error field. When you get close, it'll show the error rate in minutes:seconds. It wanders, but I see 10803.6 +28seconds at the moment. Maybe I didn't mess with it long enough last night, but tonight it's doing its 10800/21600 thing again.

    I just set my phone on top of the little Relide alarm clock that I got in the same lot as the ST. It took it about a minute to decide that the target rate should be 18000, and the error varied +/- a minute or so over the next couple minutes. It seems to be VERY sensitive to extraneous noises. Maybe I/we need to fiddle with the sensitivity or something.

    It was much more stable when I set my dad's Elgin pocket watch on my phone, directly over the microphone. It quickly selected 18000 & reported 17996 to 17998.
     
  45. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The free version doesn't do any of that.

    Kurt
     
  46. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 6, 2012
    4,775
    19
    38
    Male
    PC Tech
    Columbus. OH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #46 Bill Stuntz, Feb 14, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
    OOPS! :mallethead: I had forgotten that the free version is just to verify that it works with your phone and is analyzing the sounds correctly.
    I don't remember how much it was, maybe $5 or so? It was cheap enough that I was willing to gamble on it. I don't regret paying for it.
    And I have it with me all the time.
     
  47. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Update...after another 24 hours, and after the one turn to the + direction, the clock is 9 min slow. I made another turn, this time two turns to the +. Frankly, I don't think there are going to be enough threads to turn very far. Unless this becomes highly non-linear.

    Kurt
     
  48. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    70
    0
    Calif. USA
    How about a picture if where the regulator is and a picture of how you have
    the pawl set?
    Tinker Dwight
     
  49. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Tinker -

    What specifically do you want to see?

    Kurt
     
  50. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    3,650
    141
    63
    Aerospace Engineer (Ret.)
    San Antonio, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    As for the regulator knob, I can take a side shot of the regulator to show how many threads are showing. Not specifically sure what the pawl is, but I can try and get something that shows how the "lever" or pawl(?) makes contact with what might be called the escape wheel.

    Kurt
     

Share This Page