Help Seth Thomas 89M

[64poncho]

Hello,
Have a mantle clock that I found at an estate sale. It has an 89M movement with a Sonora chime.
Tried to get it running with not much success. Oil was dried up, so I oiled it. The beat was very weak.
Would not run long and didn’t even run with the weight removed from the pendulum. Could get it moving if i added some finger pressure to the gear train. When I removed it from the case and inspected, there is good bit of play in frame, at the escapement wheel and the gear next to it.
Took the movement apart. Going to bush the frame as needed and clean and oil the mainsprings.
Gears and pivots on the time side, look very good. The strike side worked ok but has a lot of wear at the frame holes. Pivots also looked ok on the strike side. Upon closer inspection, found two bent teeth on the maintenance gear and the pinion on the stop/ warning wheel, has bent pins.
Was able to move the teeth back, doesn‘t appear they were cracked in the process. I want to replace the bent pins in the pinion. My question is how to retain the pins in the gear after drilling the peened over area.
Thanks, Ed

 

[John P]

Gently try straightening the pins first. If they are loose, try peening the back side of the pins after supporting them on a steel block.

johnp

 

[wow]

Ed, those are normally knurled. I’ve seen them soldered but that makes a mess and the acid flux used causes them to rust so don’t try that. If the pins are cut short enough, you can knurl the brass around them using a tiny flat end punch or a small flat screwdriver. Each pin needs just enough brass spread over the end to hold the pin in. It’s ok if the pins are loose and spin on their holes. I made a knurler that mounts in my lathe tool holder that does well. Hope that helps.
Will

 

[Willie X]

One tiny peck, with a sharp punch not to close to the edge will do it. The cap must be well supported with a collar or crow's foot.

To test your work, try to push the pin out using a small hemostat or needle nose pliers and moderate pressure.

Your wear pattern is normal for this movement and your movement may (or may not) run free without the pendulum, this is normal also. The pendulum should have a wide swing when the movement is in good shape.

Willie X

 

[Dick Feldman]

It might be of use to determine what caused those teeth to bend because it will likely happen again soon.
Teeth do not just magically bend or break.
My suspicion is that the movement may have a faulty click assembly.
Assembly because there may be a problem with the click return spring, the click itself, the rivet being loose or the ratchet wheel. All of the above may need attention or remake.
Also---Adding only a very few bushings may only be a temporary fix.
Think of the wheel trains as being a chain. Any one loose pivot hole or a combination of two or more may be enough to cause unreliable operation. While you have the movement disassembled, would it be judicious to install extra bushings in places that do not seem critical?
That is what I think,
Good luck with your clock movement,
Dick

 

[64poncho]

Thanks for all the great suggestions and advice!
Johnp,
Gently try straightening the pins first.

Tried to do that but couldn’t get any leverage on it to move them back in shape.

Will,
I've seen them soldered
If the pins are cut short enough, you can knurl the brass around them using a tiny flat end punch or a small flat screwdriver.

I have soldered a pinion before, wasn’t crazy about it. Was a clock my Dad
had repaired. The previous shop really did a hack job. Didn’t have much choice
with the tools I had available.
Like the small punch method.

Wille X,
One tiny peck, with a sharp punch not to close to the edge will do it. The cap must be well supported with a collar or crow's foot. To test your work, try to push the pin out using a small hemostat or needle nose pliers and moderate pressure.

Like that, and test method.

Dick,
It might be of use to determine what caused those teeth to bend because it will likely happen again soon.
Teeth do not just magically bend or break.
My suspicion is that the movement may have a faulty click assembly.
Adding only a very few bushings may only be a temporary fix.

I work on heavy equipment, know about finding the root cause of a failure when doing repairs, so it doesn’t come back for the same problem!
Will check the click assembly. Could have happened when I let the spring down, it was wound tight and didn’t have a fixture to hold the movement. Not enough hands.
After more inspection, all the holes will get bushings. Already have the time side
cut, waiting for bushings. Working on the strike side next.

Will update when I get the gear repaired.
Thanks, Ed

 

[64poncho]

Finally have the gear repaired! Thanks for all the suggestions! I modified a 1/16“ punch to stake the replacement trundles. Worked great!
Have the movement together and testing now. Running fast. It has been running since Saturday afternoon, adjusted the speed several times to slow it. Yesterday, I set the pendulum adjustment to the slowest setting and gained about 6-7 minutes in 24 hours. I want to lengthen the pendulum rod to help correct the speed. Also going to
test again keeping a record of the time +/- for the whole week.

 

[R. Croswell]

I would never try to straighten bent trundles, and always replace all of the ones in a given pinion if one is replaced. Its together and running so perhaps it will be OK.

RC

 

[Willie X]

I think you have a replaced pendulum bob there. You could look for one that has a longer bail, or just go with an adjustable Bob. Willie X

 

[64poncho]

I would never try to straighten bent trundles, and always replace all of the ones in a given pinion if one is replaced. Its together and running so perhaps it will be OK.

RC

The trundles were on the strike side. Seems to work ok.

 

[R. Croswell]

The trundles were on the strike side. Seems to work ok.

Why do you think the strike side deserves anything less than the time side when it comes to repair?

 

[64poncho]

I think you have a replaced pendulum bob there. You could look for one that has a longer bail, or just go with an adjustable Bob. Willie X

Don’t know much about that. This is the way the clock was when I got it.
I will look into a replacement bob like you suggested.
Ed