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Seiko 101 Auto-cleaner watch cleaning machine.

aussieclockmaker

New User
Oct 13, 2012
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HELP!!!
I have a Automatic watch cleaning machine, on the front it has Auto-cleaner 101 made by Fuji Denshi Kogyo (usually known as "The Seiko Machine" ). And would be at least 30 plus years old.It has been running fine for many years without fault.
It has a pug in ultrasonic attachment that fits inside the number 2 glass jar and then plugs in with two prongs into the top of the machine.
Just recently the ultrasonic function has stopped working and I suspect the problem is the transducer as the connections in the jar are quite corroded. Has anyone had one of these machines repaired or a had a compatible transducer fitted?
Any information to get my old reliable machine up and going again including any technical information, wiring diagram or help in general would be greatly accepted.
 

Dean Johnston

New User
May 8, 2014
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Hi
I noticed this post and wondered if you fixed the problem. I have the same issue. The bottom wire had detached from the transducer but when soldered back it still won't go. Who has parts for these things?
 

Jack Freedman

NAWCC Business
Jul 29, 2010
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I sent you a PM. If you haven't received it, feel free to contact me direct at: jfsuperior @aol.com (leave out space before @)
Regards,
Jack
 

trim

NAWCC Member
Feb 19, 2010
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WOW thanks, just what I was after!

Much appreciate that you kindly made this available.

Hello!

I just spotted your post, and you probably solve this problem already.
But, anyway, here is scanned version of Auto-Cleaner 101 Manual and Parts List. Both have a wiring diagram... :)
 

Raylaw

Newbie
Feb 26, 2015
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Hi there,
HELP!
I have just broken one of the jars on my cleaning machine!
Does anyone know where i can get a replacement product?
Thanks
 

Robert Piker

Registered User
Aug 28, 2015
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Hello,
I know your post goes back a bit, but did you ever discover how to repair your ultrasonic in your Seiko cleaner. I have one, too, and love it but the ultrasonic jars (2 of them) have not worked since I've owned it.
Thanks,
Bob
bob@mybob.net
 

jeanserres

Registered User
Mar 9, 2017
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Hi!. I've a CL-101 Fuji Denshi Kogyo K.K. Autocleaner machinne, and i need to know the steps for adjust it, to turn to every jar and stop to wash.

If you know too, a part number code for every item of these machine, please tell me where i found it.

Thanks a lot.
 

roughbarked

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Dec 2, 2016
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My experience is this. The ultrasonics eat themselves out of business. The action of the ultrasonic eats the soldder off the connections. You can easily resolder them until the ultrasonic eats the rest of the connection off too. The jars are very thin and can break easiily by any slight misalignment of the machine as it descends into each jar and rises out. One of these machines purchased in 1980 has been sitting idle in the shop for at least 15 years because not only the resoldering of the ultrasonic contacts eventually failed and three jars have big chips out of them but mainly because the dryer cooks all of the plastic parts in modern quartz watches.
 

jeanserres

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Mar 9, 2017
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Thanks. I try to aligne the wash basket into the center of the jar. its 2 grade out of center of them. How i can fix it? thanks again.
 

jeanserres

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Mar 9, 2017
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Yes, but its dont show how to calibrate the wash basket to center position of the jar... I have a user manual, digital and phisical. Do you know how it is? thanks
 

jeanserres

Registered User
Mar 9, 2017
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No!... the machine sequence is working correctly but the centered 6 positions over the jares are out of center .. Where are the 6 centering adjustments to center them . . .and basket go down correctly without touching border of jares.?thank you
 

roughbarked

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Dec 2, 2016
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I'll have a look when I go in to work. I'll probably have to take the cover off but I'll be doing it during shop time. It has been taking up space in the workshop for years. If I could get new jars and new ultrasonics(been resoldered as much as possible) and find a way to turn the heater off or turn the thermostat down, I'd put it back to use.

I also have a three jar version here at home, earlier model but it quite clearly has its mechanism viewable though I've never had to adjust this one nor has it broken any jars.
 

jeanserres

Registered User
Mar 9, 2017
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Turning off the heater so that it worked only when you want is easy. I can tell you how and where in the circuit with a new diagram added to the original.
To mine I put a switch to the motor circuit of the time to lengthen the functions that I want according to what this washing.
If you want me to design it, let me know to add the original diagram and the instructions on how to do it or install it and the pieces that will be needed.
I hope you can find the points of adjustment of the positions of the jugs, because I handle the electronics that is my trade but the mechanics is for me something more difficult.
Well, I hope you can guide me in focusing the fall of the jars
 

roughbarked

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Dec 2, 2016
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Turning off the heater so that it worked only when you want is easy. I can tell you how and where in the circuit with a new diagram added to the original.
To mine I put a switch to the motor circuit of the time to lengthen the functions that I want according to what this washing.
If you want me to design it, let me know to add the original diagram and the instructions on how to do it or install it and the pieces that will be needed.
I hope you can find the points of adjustment of the positions of the jugs, because I handle the electronics that is my trade but the mechanics is for me something more difficult.
Well, I hope you can guide me in focusing the fall of the jars
OK. Well I'll probably have to do it on a day that I'm not getting paid to work. I'll have to pull the top off for a look. Maybe the bottom as well. The boss may even be happy for me to remove it from the workshop and fix it at home. I'd reckon that there is some electrical switchery going on that could be part of the positional adjustment of the arm movements but again there will be a mechanical component. I'll have a chat with the shop owner. It is his machine but all it has done for the past 15 years, is sit there looking like a stupid waste of space. It would be good to get the ultrasonics working again but not absolutely necessary.
 

Robert Piker

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Aug 28, 2015
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Any ideas as to why the belt seems to be slipping and not grabbing as it should? if I manually push the belt to advance the basket, it will go into a jar and spin forever.
 

Robert Piker

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Aug 28, 2015
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it does come off occasionally and historically I just slipped it back on and all was fine. Now, even though it's on, advancing from one jar to another doesn't seem to take place unless I manually push the belt gears. And when I press on the belt I can get it to advance somewhat, over and over.
 

Robert Piker

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Aug 28, 2015
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I wonder how I could find a matching belt. I am going to try your ajax idea. it sounds promising. I'll look closer, too, to see if there is a belt-tightening adjustment. Thanks, my friend.
 

roughbarked

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I'm possibly lucky to be in an intensive agricultural area. I can go down to the local engineering shop and find aisles of belts of all types. Measure your belt. There may be one at a shop near you.

The ajax works. I use it on my self tipping hoist. It has to lift more than 70 kg.

10257724585_0e5536dcd1_c.jpg
 

Robert Piker

Registered User
Aug 28, 2015
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Hello, again.It's been awhile and I ended up putting my cleaner aside and have been using another but I'd sure like to get it running again, so I'm back at it. The ajax idea didn't do the trick. There is not an adjustment to be found which would allow me to stretch the belt a bit further. It sits on track, but seems to be ever so loose so won't grab well and ultimately slips off. I measured the center distance between the 2 wheels and got 33mm. It isn't quite a 1/4" wide. Any ideas as to where I could find a similar replacement belt? Or, is it possible to shrink this belt a bit? I am considering applying heat to shrink it a bit for a tighter grip on the wheels. My suspicion is that time has ultimately caused it to stretch. I had used it for a few years without any problems, with the exception of the ultrasonics never working, and it would be great if I could get her going again. Thanks!
 

watchwldr940

Registered User
Nov 26, 2008
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Have you tried watchmakers' lathe belting? One cuts the length needed then heats the ends and fuses them together while molten, or almost molten. Or uses a splice thingamagig that is available through any clock or watch repair source... George
 

GBOflyer

Registered User
Jan 25, 2019
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Hi All
I know this is a very old thread but having just joined the NAWCC forum I'm going through site looking for articles of interest to myself.

I have a 101 machine and after breaking a jar and not being able to find a replacement, decided to modify it to take the stronger and more available Elma jars. This is not a trivial conversion as I had to make an extension piece to move the motor unit higher in order to clear the higher Elma jars. The downside is that I have currently lost the Ultrasonic capability but plan to use a round stainless steel tank for station 2 with a modern transducer and electronic drive unit similar to those used on modern Asian jewellery cleaners. I could have adapted the original US system to fit the Elma jars but I'm not sure the "wet" transducer arrangement is entirely safe given the high voltages needed to power the transducer. I like the 101 because it is a compact 6 station machine but unlike the L&R Tempo 400 it doesn't have individual duration timers for each station nor the periodic rotation reversal of the basket motor. I intend to address these shortcomings but again they are not trivial design changes and since I now use a Greiner Ultrason U cleaning machine it isn't my top priority. The Ultrason U is more suited to my occasional cleaning needs as it uses a water based 1st station tank with ultrasonic and a single 2nd station tank using isopropyl alcohol. The machine has an inbuilt distillation feature so the second tank can be flushed and then replenished with pure iso. As a retired electronic design engineer I have serviced most cleaning machines currently being used so can advise about their workings or repair.

Having modified my 101 I now have 4 of their glass tanks available as spares to anyone in need.

Clive
 

Ado213

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Jun 9, 2019
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@GBOflyer. Newbie here, I know this is an old post but does anyone have a spare glass jar for a 101, Broke one of mine !!

I'm more than happy to pay for it,
 

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
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Feb 11, 2005
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You can use a private Conversation to work out the details. Just click on Ado213 in the left pane and then select "Start a Conversation".
 

Kevsun

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May 7, 2021
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Hi
Just like to ask have anyone resolve the problem of alignment with the Seiko 101 cleaning machine? How can it be adjusted, so that it go in the center of the jar?
Many thanks
 

magpie addict

New User
Apr 13, 2022
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Hi All
I know this is a very old thread but having just joined the NAWCC forum I'm going through site looking for articles of interest to myself.

I have a 101 machine and after breaking a jar and not being able to find a replacement, decided to modify it to take the stronger and more available Elma jars. This is not a trivial conversion as I had to make an extension piece to move the motor unit higher in order to clear the higher Elma jars. The downside is that I have currently lost the Ultrasonic capability but plan to use a round stainless steel tank for station 2 with a modern transducer and electronic drive unit similar to those used on modern Asian jewellery cleaners. I could have adapted the original US system to fit the Elma jars but I'm not sure the "wet" transducer arrangement is entirely safe given the high voltages needed to power the transducer. I like the 101 because it is a compact 6 station machine but unlike the L&R Tempo 400 it doesn't have individual duration timers for each station nor the periodic rotation reversal of the basket motor. I intend to address these shortcomings but again they are not trivial design changes and since I now use a Greiner Ultrason U cleaning machine it isn't my top priority. The Ultrason U is more suited to my occasional cleaning needs as it uses a water based 1st station tank with ultrasonic and a single 2nd station tank using isopropyl alcohol. The machine has an inbuilt distillation feature so the second tank can be flushed and then replenished with pure iso. As a retired electronic design engineer I have serviced most cleaning machines currently being used so can advise about their workings or repair.

Having modified my 101 I now have 4 of their glass tanks available as spares to anyone in need.

Clive
Hello Clive
Imagine the original jars have gone but if not I would love them. Just bought one of these machines and love it. Happy to pay post despite the distance
Robert
 

magpie addict

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Apr 13, 2022
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Hi Robert
As these jars are so rare I still have one jar. Where about in the world are you. Clive
Australia, Victoria to be precise. I really only need one but would have bought the rest against the day I broke one. Does it have the cover? Either way what price. Bubble wrap essential to get such here in one piece.
 

magpie addict

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Apr 13, 2022
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Clive
I chose magpie as a name because in addition to clocks and pocket watches, cars, motorbikes, art, furniture and much more seem to accumulate at random around me. I am slowing with age and poor health now so fewer cars and bikes.
 

GBOflyer

Registered User
Jan 25, 2019
8
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Hi
Just like to ask have anyone resolve the problem of alignment with the Seiko 101 cleaning machine? How can it be adjusted, so that it go in the center of the jar?
Many thanks
Hi
The motor unit at the top of the column is, if I remember correctly, held in alignment by a grub screw. If this is released the motor unit can be realigned but make sure the ratchet mechanism is indexing correctly. Clive
 

Robert Piker

Registered User
Aug 28, 2015
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Hi, everyone. I know this is an old thread but if anyone sees this, I have this same machine sitting idle as it's drive belt has broken. It worked great for a couple of years once I got it and I sure do miss it. I've had a hard time finding a replacement belt, but surely there's something out there which will work. Any ideas? I'd sure appreciate hearing from you. I broke one of my jars, too, and imagine I'll just build another with glass and aquarium sealant. Thanks. Bob
 

Mickford

New User
May 23, 2020
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I have fixed 4 ultrasonic transducers where the wires have come off before.
So far they have lasted 5 years and are still going strong.
You can't just solder them as the ultrasonic itself along with the cleaning fluid eats the solder
If anyone needs these fixed send me a message.

The next thing is the ultrasonic oscillator system not working.
DISCLAIMER!
There is dangerous voltages within the seiko 101 autocleaner!! The ultrasonic oscillator system runs on +600VDC!!! AND this unit has capacitors that hold voltage, even when the machine is off and unplugged! So do not attempt any work on this unit yourself or do any of the steps following this unless you are a qualified electrician and know what you are doing!!! I do not take any responsibility if you get electrocuted/shocked or break your machine any more, as this is simply a guide to help with diagnosis. You have been warned.

If you are qualified and know what you are doing, you can try the following things to fix the ultrasonic system.

If you have a red indicator light on when the cleaner goes into the jar with the ultrasonic plugs on them but no ultrasonic output then this might help.

1. Check that the wires have not come off the ultrasonic transducer.

2. Check the small black plug that plugs into the unit for wire deterioration. If you are confident this is not the issue then go to the next step.

3. Check the output of the ultrasonic system itself, set your 1000V rated multimeter(as again, you need to be qualified and know what you are doing and should have one of these) to VDC, click Hz on the meter (I have a fluke 287) and put the meter leads in the black plug In the base with no ultrasonic plugged in.

With no jars in, set the machine forward so when you click push on, it drops into the same jar spot where the leads are located, as if the machine is running normally. When the red light comes on, the meter should show +100VDC and something like 430khz-490khz. If you see 2VDC or something like that then you have no output and can move onto the next step.

4. There are 2 valves within the seiko 101, there is a diode and a power valve. I can't remember the part number for the diode but the power valve is a 6CA7.
This valve is usually the reason the ultrasonic oscillator stops suddenly so you can try to pull it out and replace it, if you can't find a replacement, a EL34 is a direct replacement.(I have fixed 2 machines this way)
NOTE!! changing this valve changes the characteristics of the oscillator.. which needs to be at 470khz.
To tune this oscillator, go to step 3 above and then if you see an output, do the following: With an insulated screwdriver, adjust the tuning pot on the front panel(white and red) so the meter reads 470khz.

If you get this far, turn the machine off and on again to reset the cycle, plug in your ultrasonic and try again, the ultrasonic should be fixed and working again.

There is only one oscillator system, if it works on one plug, it will work on the others so it only has to be done once. If it doesn't work, you have bad microswitches, a bad relay or a broken wire.

If you still have no output, the other thing that usually goes in this machine is the capacitors dry up and get tired.
I have had direct replacements for these so I have never ordered them but mainly the 2 under the floor inside the unit are the problems. Again, 600VDC+ are found on these and they hold charge even when the machine is off so make sure everything is properly discharged before you proceed to change these. They are maroon in colour and I have seen one of these be blown up before.

Another thing that goes is the microswitches in the top arm under the white cover. And 2 or 3 of them on the synchronous motor cam in the base. There is a microswitch which turns off and on the ultrasonic system and on the 2A versions of this machine, it switches between 3 ultrasonic transducers as well.

The best type of microswitches in my experience is the Omron V-15 series 15A. These machines were designed to run forever but every single sequence step hammers the switch cycles, so don't skimp out on cheap microswitches as you will be In the same boat again within a year.

Another thing to check is the relays, bad contacts can stop things from working, check these and replace as necessary.

Finally, if all else fails, check the wiring inside for bad solder, broken wires.

If none of the above work, send me a message and I'll try to guide you.
 

Betzel

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Dec 1, 2010
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It's really cool when we get multi-disciplinary. Thanks for that last post.

Still working on a '50's Telefunken radio and I now have a load lamp and a bench-made capacitor let-down tool I made with help from from some videos to be safe. So far, so good, but I've heard of that high voltage exiting an elbow from a finger contact on a cap to hit ground so the advice is very well placed. Like lightning in Florida. Get yourselves a power resistor and make a capacitor-drainer if you want to fiddle around. Less than a buck. Like a clock spring in the winder that takes your finger off when it lets go, this could take more. Don't go out with a pop!
 

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