Seconds hand for 21J Bunn Special replacement doesn't fit

Discussion in 'Watch Repair' started by mtucker, Oct 7, 2019.

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  1. mtucker

    mtucker Registered User

    Apr 13, 2019
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    I decided to replace the second hand on my inherited Bunn Special ( here is my thread on it Inherited Bunn Special B&O Railroad ). Someone told me the second hand was off an Elgin watch and I confirmed that with some Googling. The second hand I bought was advertised for a Hamilton, but I knew Hamilton bought Illinois shortly before my watch was made (it is a 1929) so I took a chance on it. It looks like what I thought is the correct second hand for my watch, but the opening is smaller than the opening on the Elgin second hand and it won't fit on the seconds shaft.

    My questions are:
    1. visually (shape), is that the right second hand
    2. If yes, do some of the second hands have a different fitting pressed in and that is why the opening is too small?
    Thanks,
    Matt

    IMG_20191007_101622.jpg

    IMG_20191007_103133.jpg
     
  2. Chris Radek

    Chris Radek Registered User
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    Apr 13, 2014
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    It's very common to have to ream second hands to fit. A tapered reamer should be used, and with care you can get the friction fit perfect.
     
  3. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Moving to watch repair


    Rob
     
  4. mtucker

    mtucker Registered User

    Apr 13, 2019
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    Thanks for the information. It would take a bit of reaming since the opening on the Elgin hand doesn't look much smaller than the entire protrusion on the Hamilton hand. I noticed the Elgin hand has a cut on the cylinder piece that press fits on to let it expand some when pushed on. The Hamilton cylinder piece doesn't appear to have a way to let it spring open.

    Thanks. Still a little new on this forum.

    I can keep my eye on Ebay for another second hand off an Illinois watch. Does anyone know if the Hamilton version and the version used on the Illinois differ at all? They visibly look identical in shape.

    Thanks,
    Matt
     
  5. terry hall

    terry hall Registered User
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    Apr 12, 2001
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    in your second image i see something....

    remove the dial, examine the 4th wheel post... ensure the OLD fitting for the second hand is not still attached to the post......

    sure appears to be in the image. I know if you view it without the dial on the movement it will be apparent....
    do this before broaching the hand....
     
  6. mtucker

    mtucker Registered User

    Apr 13, 2019
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    I see what you are saying. I'll check it out. Thanks very much.
     
  7. mtucker

    mtucker Registered User

    Apr 13, 2019
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    I have never taken a pocket watch apart before, but some Youtube videos helped give me the confidence to remove the movement and dial. It isn't obvious to me if the old fitting is still attached, but I don't have anything to compare it to. I have a microscope at work which helps a lot. It is hard to take pictures through the microscope, but I got a decent shot at an angle. You see so much more at an angle compared to straight on. Both pictures are below. Any feedback if the old fitting or adapter is still there? If it takes anymore disassembly, I will probably send it to a person that specializes in american pocket watches.
    Thanks,
    Matt

    second_hand_shaft_straight_angle.jpg second_hand_shaft_straight.jpg
     
  8. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    Feb 24, 2007
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    Don't see anything on the shaft, it is bare.
     
  9. mtucker

    mtucker Registered User

    Apr 13, 2019
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    OK, thanks. It looks bare to me too. I put the Elgin second hand back on. Although wrong, it is about the same blue color as the minute and hour hand. Next time I have the watch serviced, I'll see if they can get a correct second hand and put it on there.
    Matt
     
  10. Rob P.

    Rob P. Registered User

    Dec 19, 2011
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    Give the repairman the seconds bit you have and ask him to install it. It's just a matter of reaming to size and he should have the tools to do that task.
     
  11. Marty101

    Marty101 Registered User
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    Oct 28, 2007
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    Rob is correct about the reaming. And it isn't much;it shouldn't take but 30 seconds or so. I'm sorry you've been through so much trouble with this-I assume you bought that hand from me-?-
    It is a touchy thing working with friction fit parts. I have found reaming second hands that should fit to be mostly cleaning,not resizing.
     
  12. mtucker

    mtucker Registered User

    Apr 13, 2019
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    Thanks for the reply. I don't think I bought it from you. The Ebay auction for the hand lists the seller's location as Saint Jacob, Illinois. In a way, I'm glad it didn't fit. It pushed me to take the movement out of the case and pull the dial off so now I know how to do some of the the basics.
    Would you mind taking a look at the very first picture I posted on this thread? It shows the two second hands side by side. The correct looking hand looks like the opening it is considerably smaller than the Elgin that fits. If you think it is OK, then I may try to get a reaming tool and do it myself.
    Thanks,
    Matt
     

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