Second Hand Addition

chriskern97

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Jul 23, 2010
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I have recently purchased a grandfather clock from an antiques store. I was told that the movement was brand new, and by the looks of it, I believe him. The viewing angle from the side is a little tight, but I am fairly certain the part number is 1161-853 BS. What does the 'BS' stand for?

I am in need of replacing the moon dial, pendulum, and weight shells. I am finding that most of all the moon dials out there have a hole for a second hand shaft. The current dial does not have a hole, nor the (obviously) the second hand. Is it easy to add this feature? Does my Hermle movement allow for this addition? Can anyone please direct me to some instructions on how to do so? I have searched the web (admittedly probably not enough) but am unable to locate anything of sunstance on the subject.

Thanks in advance.
 

harold bain

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Hi, chriskern, welcome to the message board. The movement should have a letter above the model number to indicate when it was made. "W" would be this year. It may have a two number date if it is an older movement. "76" would be 1976. You should also see the pendulum length marked on the movement, either 94 or 114 cm.
Check the year code, as looking new may not be the same as being new.
Adding a second hand is as easy as ordering one from one of the parts suppliers.
Blackforest Imports can help you with your need for dial, weights and pendulum, and likely the second hand as well.
www.blackforestimports.com
Some of the older movements have the wind arbours arranged in a straight line across the front of the movement. Getting a dial to fit this would be a problem. The newer ones have the middle arbour dropped down in relation to the other two.
 

Scottie-TX

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Apr 6, 2004
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Adding a seconds bit would be easy as ordering IFF the movement has an extended escape wheel pivot to accept one. Does yours have that?
 

chriskern97

Registered User
Jul 23, 2010
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Thank you for the quick responses. I am afraid I am *VERY* new to clocks and am not exactly sure what an "extended escape wheel pivot" is. Sorry.

I just looked (had to use a mirror) at the writing on the back of the movement. It appears to be:

T
Hermle 1161-853 C SK
114cm
60

So the 'T' would mean that it was built in 2008, correct?
What does the 'C' and 'SK' stand for?

As far as the "extended escape wheel pivot" is concerned, I will try to locate a 'map' of the Hermle 1161-853 movement and verify if I have one or not.
 

Scottie-TX

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I gather the dial is still attached?
Assuming it is, looking from either side of the movement there will be a shaft protruding from the front plate where a seconds bit hand would be. If there is no protruding shaft there, the movement could not have a seconds hand without replacing the escape wheel.
 

shutterbug

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It looks like it to me. the current dial is not utilizing it.
 

RickB

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May 28, 2010
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Triple Chime - Cable Driven - Long Handshaft


1161-853
94, 100, 114CM Pendulum
Hand shaft 53.2mm
12 Hammer back
Plate Size 140 x 200mm
Cable driven
Takes a #8 crank


Long handshaft so the movement will be set back from the dial, into the case more.

Cable driven triple chime movement plays 4/4 Westminster, Whittington, or St. Michaels chimes sound each quarter hour and strike the full hour. It has an automatic beat adjustment, over wind protection, removable cable drums, second hand sweep and a optional automatic night chime shutoff feature so it will not chime between 11PM and 7AM

Here's a link to the parts, http://www.clockworks.com/hermle/1161.html
 

Scottie-TX

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I believe most here agree that yours is all ready for a seconds bit and only requires the applicable dial and hand. The shaft will have a light taper and the hand, a split tube that is inserted over it for a friction fit.
 

RJSoftware

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Apr 15, 2005
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Is this correct? "A" arrow pointing to the second hand arbor and "B" a hole for the second hand?

yourherm.jpg
 

MARK A. BUTTERWORTH

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Jul 4, 2009
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Yes, the falseplate already has the hole for the hand. If you were to drill the dial and get a time ring for the seconds you would be good to go. You do not need the drill a very large hole in the dial, btw, about a 1/4" or so. Take a look at dials w/seconds hands to get a feel for what you need to do.
 

Scottie-TX

Deceased
Apr 6, 2004
936
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0
80
Mesquite, TX
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The hole may not even need be that large but in any event, I find the UNIBIT the very best tool for making holes in thin material. Get one today. Well, O.K. - tomorrow then. Take your time and re-check hole center OFTEN in case it drifts. If it drifts, you'll return it to center with a file and continue.
 

harold bain

NAWCC Member
Deceased
Nov 4, 2002
40,853
179
63
72
Whitby, Ontario, Canada
Country
Region
"I am in need of replacing the moon dial, pendulum, and weight shells. I am finding that most of all the moon dials out there have a hole for a second hand shaft."

From this quote out of the first post, I am assuming there must be something wrong with the original dial that doesn't involve the second hand.
Chriskern, can you confirm?
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
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Chris,

I may be wrong but I think that you may have a mixture of parts there. H-M has used there own brand of movements for about 12 years now. So, I'm guessing that you have a later model Hermle movement that someone has tried to adapt to the case.

This is usually not a big deal, you would probably be better off to just go with the movement you have and order generic dial, pend, and weight set, as already mentioned. You still may have to make mods to the trim board and movement height to get everything to work. There are often clearance 'issues' with the back of the movement, hammers, pendulum, and chime block.

These type jobs usually come out fine, but the amount of work necessary and material cost can be quite large.

Good luck,
Willie X
 

chriskern97

Registered User
Jul 23, 2010
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The dial is a bit scratched up, the pendulum has a different university's logo etched into it (different than where my wife and I graduated), and the weight shells are corroded in a few places.

Yes, the movement was replaced a year or so ago and the dial stayed the same.

While looking into replacement dials, I noticed that few have the second bit dial (the current one obviously does not have one either). I am looking into replacement costs of everything and will decide on how to proceed. The scratches on the dial are small and really not noticeable until you get right up on them. The shells and pendulum certainly have to go.

Again, thank you all for your comments. I am glad I found this forum. I can tell that I am going to have fun with my new found hobby.
 

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