Scottish Tall Case

[Dave B]

Saw a nice Scottish Tall Case clock at the Longmeadow (MA) Library today. Took a couple of pix, but they wouldn't let me open it or remove the hood to photograph the movement. Here is what I could photograph, though. There was a window directly across from the clock, and the only way to eliminate reflections on the dial was to take it at an oblique angle. Height to the top of the center finial I would guess is about 7 feet. I am guessing again, but would say the waist is about 14 inches wide.

 

[harold bain]

Beautiful clock, Dave. Do they run it?

 

[eskmill]

Agreed this is a handsome and nicely made standing or tall clock.

Please help me understand why as an North American, I should considered this fine clock as Scottish.

What features set this clock's case and face apart from English or Colonial American clocks?

 

[Frank Menez]

Watchmakers & Clockmakers of the World by Loomes

Alexander Paton Kirriemuir 1860

Kirriemuir is a town 14 miles North of Dundee Scotland

 

[jmclaugh]

Very nice longcase clock with a typical busy Scottish dial with the decorations being joined up with each other which together with the absence of minute numbering put this clock firmly in the final period of painted dial clocks 1830-70..

As for American tall clocks I am no expert but my understanding is by the 1830s production of them had more or less ceased so you don’t really find examples of the last period of painted dials clocks

 

[laprade]

Chaps, if you look closely at the trunk door, you will see a common feature found in Drum Head clocks of that period. This case seems to be just at the point when the arch gave way to the round drum face.

 

[eskmill]

Aside from the maker's name and town on the face, then the style of dial artwork sets this clock face apart from English or Colonial American clock faces?

Does then, the face and the uniquely carved trunk door make this a Scottish clock? Or are there other characteristics of this fine tall cased clock such as the choice of woods or joinery?

This is a very good example of how subtile characteristics can be used to determine the origin of a clock or timepiece from photos.

 

[laprade]

The mahogany on the outside of the clock isn’t much help, as I suspect that Cuban mahogany was available on both sides of the pond. A good wood person could tell more by looking at the “sub” wood used in the framing, and back board. As to style, the convex sections above and below the main door, go towards the style known as William IV. The finial above that door is slightly Gothic: Sir Walter Scott, and “Strawberry Hill”.

The painting would tell more, when the two lights are examined with the rocky headlands behind. The large “clipper” type ship, would be probably used on the Atlantic run. I don’t know if “East Indiamen” came to Scottish waters. In the distance, near the clipper, what looks like a river-estuary rigged-barge. The boat in the foreground, I think is “gaff rigged”: could be wrong!

 

[Dave B]

Laprade - you are correct; it is a gaff rig. I was a little irked that they wouldn't let me open the door, let alone remove the hood, but they don't know me from Adam, so I didn't argue the point. I will be coming back here next spring to work on six clocks owned by the Longmeadow Historical Society. I am certain that after I repair their clocks, the Longmeadow Library Association will have no qualms about letting me at least photograph and inspect the interior. So like many things in life, these posts begin what will probably turn out to be a serial saga. LOL Incidentally, here are some pics of the three tall cased clocks belonging to the Historical Society. As I gain more information and documentation on these clocks, I will post it as well, if for no other reason than to be certain someone besides me knows something about them.. Who knows? I could get hit by a truck and the knowledge would die with me. I think we all owe it to future generations to pass as much knowledge on as possible.

Inmages 1117 and 1118 are of a case by David white, a local Longmeadow cabinet maker. The movement is wood, and probably Connecticut.

Images 1119 and 1120 are of a veneered case. The movement is cable driven, so presumably brass movement.

The center of the top of the David White Case is broken off. I have attached a photo of my clock case by hikm, showing what was probably there when he made this one.

Images 1121,1122,and 1123 are of a clock attributed to the Enfield Shaker community. The drive appears to be cloth (linen?) cable, so presumably this clock also has a wooden movement.

I will be working on all three of these clocks, along with an unsigned banjo, a Seth Thomas Shelf clock, and a schoolroom drop regulator, so will post more information as I get to them. As they used to say in radio, "Stay tuned!"

 

[Patricia A]

Thanks for posting the photos. The David White case clock has Masonic imagery on the dial. A CT wooden movement with a Masonic dial is likely to have made by Hoadley or by Riley Whiting. I'm curious about about the painters of these dials ... and about the original clients for these clocks. Hope you'll let us see more photos next spring.

 

[jmclaugh]

Aside from the maker's name and town on the face, then the style of dial artwork sets this clock face apart from English or Colonial American clock faces?

Does then, the face and the uniquely carved trunk door make this a Scottish clock? Or are there other characteristics of this fine tall cased clock such as the choice of woods or joinery?

This is a very good example of how subtile characteristics can be used to determine the origin of a clock or timepiece from photos.

Dialmaking in Scotland began later than in England from where dials were purchased. The Scots seem not to have been keen on square dials much preferring arch dials probably as there is more area to colour. Scottish painted dials do tend to be far bolder and busier in that the whole outer dial including the arch is coloured especially on clocks from the west coast during the final period of dial painting. The plain circular white dials laprade refers to as drum head were very popular in Scotland but not in England. I don't think the shape of the trunk door is an indication of locality as it is so unusual.

As for American painted dials afaik they tended to follow the English style probably because they imported English made dials but I my knowledge of them is not extensive.

 

[laprade]

Just a couple of shots of Scots round faced clocks, with the destinctive door features. The full case shot is filched from a thread about a drumhead in this section.

http://www.mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=54770

 

[Dave B]

Come next Spring, I intend to do far more than merely service these clocks. I want to document them insofar as possible, and intend to take extensive photographs, both of the clocks as they are, and as I do whatever work they need. I expect to download many photos, as work progresses.

 

[jmclaugh]

Interesting laprade, perhaps that style of door is a Scottish trait after all.

 

[cazboy]

Very interesting thread. I found myself following along because I learn quite a bit from it. I was not aware, until this thread, of the characteristic differences that set Scottish longcases apart from others. I find this thread especially interesting; to me it's fascinating that different countries with their cultural differences adorn their longcases emphasizing different features.

Interestingly, I recently found myself in a similar situation - while at a local hospital stay for my granddaughter (all ended happily, btw) at Kansas University Medical Center, I ran across a nice longcase somewhere in the corridors - and similar to Dave B, there was a window across from it which forced me to angle my shots in order to avoid reflections. I've been meaning to share them on the board but I'm lazy - I'll post another thread with pics.

 

[laprade]

Cazboy,

Not only are the Scots cases different from south of the border, but either side of the Pennines, there is a huge difference. Then again there are sub categories, Cheshire, Lancashire in the West, with Lincolnshire etc. in the East: not to mention the South!

Dave, posted some clocks that if seen in the UK, would be labelled as “Scots”. We need a thread to deal with the diversity of Uk and Irish clock cases.

In Eire, the trend in the mid 19th was towards round dials: picture

 

[oldcat61]

Laprade - are you going to start the new thread - I'm in for sure. Don't know what is so "Scottish" about my clock except for the thistle side frets. The rest seems London-ish to me. I also have photos of several more John Key(Dumbarton) clocks. Sue

 

[laprade]

Sue I remember the cases.(got it crossed with missy) They were a mix of English and Scots. Probably because the clients of the seller, didn't like the "normal" squarish Scots designs, with the high hoods and not much decoration. I'm game for a thread on the subject and am getting together lots of pics. The thread's name will have to be carefully thought out