Schottenwerk ?

[mickthefish]

Hi there all, here are a few pictures of an old weight driven clock I have for those of you interested in the wooden plate varieties, having browsed the forum I'm thinking that this is a schottenwerk holzgespindelte ie referring to the wooden arbor/brass gear type. took me a while to sort the pendulum rod length/weight to the non original bob, but it seems to be keeping reasonable time now, got to say I'm not a particular lover of the sound of this particular type of movement, not had one before and don't know if thats normal, but would be happy to receive any of your comments on this clock. cheers.

 

[oreel]

Good morning, indeed this is a "Shwarzwald" holzgespindeltes Uhr made in Germany Black Forrest between say 1750 up to 1860. We call this a "Postmans Clock" which is made special for the UK market with a mahogany front with a round glas fitted in one piece mould brass. Sorry for the English. I would estimate this specific clock to be from around 1820-1840 looking at the woolden parts used. Earlier 1700 no brass was used at all and gradually the woold was replaced by brasss. If you look at the prvious Thread "how to dismantle...... started by oreel you see some more pictures. Nice looking clock
Kees Oreel

 

[mickthefish]

Hi there oreel, thanks for that, yes that does indeed look a very similar clock, one thing I am not sure on is that you call it a 'Postmans Clock' are Postmans not the types with an alarm, this one has the hourly strike ?

 

[oreel]

Don`t think so but do not have many years of experience, I have never seen a Postman`s with an alarm and the photo at the left with the alarm is not from the postman`s but from one I`m just working on but from the same period of time and the same origin. The other photo is from the Postmans. Also both Postman`s I have at home I have put a small piece of steel rod to block the hourly alarm. My wife appreciated that very much. If you go Google for Postman`s Clock you will find several examples.

 

[mickthefish]

.... Also both Postman`s I have at home I have put a small piece of steel rod to block the hourly alarm. My wife appreciated that very much. ....

I know exactly what you mean . thanks oreel.

 

[soaringjoy]

For the records, the clocks were indeed called "Postman's Alarms" and that's what they
were: alarm clocks with Schotten movements.
The origins of the nickname are not clear, but the clocks were very popular until WW 1.

 

[mickthefish]

For the records, the clocks were indeed called "Postman's Alarms" and that's what they
were: alarm clocks with Schotten movements.
The origins of the nickname are not clear, but the clocks were very popular until WW 1.

thanks Jurgen, but I have to say I am still a little confused, you say they were called 'Postmans Alarms' because that is what they are/were, and show a picture of one which does indeed appear to have a central alarm setting disc, so even the ones such as mine, without the alarm setting disc that simply chime out the the hours is still referred to as an alarm ?

 

[soaringjoy]

Uff, OK, you got me.

The clocks were called "postman's alarms" in the UK, not over here in Germany.
The makers mostly simply called them wall clocks with alarm.
Through time, the term has been adopted by German clockies and is even mentioned
in some books published by the museums.

Clocks like yours had different terminologies, depending on the maker.
Some were merely called "chain driven weight clocks", others were "Rahmenuhren" (frame clocks),
or "Rundrahmenuhren" (round frame clocks).

This maker (LFS) called the clock "1 Day chain driven clocks" (Schottenuhren).
Of course, Schottenuhren indicated a certain type of wooden plates movement, but do note the
maker's translation to English: Scotch clocks.
And that, again is pretty weird, because the name actually evolved from the location, where the movements were first made, which was a BF farm called the Schottenhof.
Nothing in common with anything concerning the Scots, the Scotch, or even Scotland.

 

[mickthefish]

cheers Jurgen, most illuminating, nothing is straightforward I guess, but I suppose it wouldn't be interesting if it were.

 

[Albra]

Hi there all, here are a few pictures of an old weight driven clock I have for those of you interested in the wooden plate varieties, having browsed the forum I'm thinking that this is a schottenwerk holzgespindelte ie referring to the wooden arbor/brass gear type. took me a while to sort the pendulum rod length/weight to the non original bob, but it seems to be keeping reasonable time now, got to say I'm not a particular lover of the sound of this particular type of movement, not had one before and don't know if thats normal, but would be happy to receive any of your comments on this clock. cheers.

Mickthefish, this is a very good description of your clock and movement.

But just for the records: Your movement is not a "Schottenwerk", in German it´s called "Stollenwerk". (Jürgen, is ther an Englsh word for "Stollenwerk"??)

A "Schottenwerk" is smaller and has hour and strike side by side,a "Stollenwerk" has time and strike one behind the other. And a "Stollenwerk" is also larger than a Schottenwerk and the pendulum is longer.

albra

 

[Uhralt]

Mickthefish, this is a very good description of your clock and movement.

But just for the records: Your movement is not a "Schottenwerk", in German it´s called "Stollenwerk". (Jürgen, is ther an Englsh word for "Stollenwerk"??)

A "Schottenwerk" is smaller and has hour and strike side by side,a "Stollenwerk" has time and strike one behind the other. And a "Stollenwerk" is also larger than a Schottenwerk and the pendulum is longer.


albra

I would also say that the "Stollenwerk" with its wooden arbors (holzgespindelt) is older than the Schottenwerk with the steel arbors.

Uhralt

 

[soaringjoy]

Albra is right.
The earlier Stollenwerks had the pendulum crutch outside the movement and the name-giving "pegs"
kept it away from the wall. Later on, the parts were moved inside the backboard, but the size and general
train set-up was kept (except for the exceptions...).
There is, afaik, no adaquate English translation for Stollen- or Schottenuhr, see Zepernick's post #7 here:
https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?26525-Hook-and-Spike-Clock

Uhralt, well, yes and no, so to say. The smaller Schottenuhr movement appeared some 30, 40 years after the
Stollenuhr movement, but they were made side by side for long periods of time. The evolution in BF clockmaking
advanced very gradually, while other clockmaking areas changed their ways and habits practically over night.
"German/American" clocks are good examples of this kind of thing happening.

 

[Jim Duncan]

mickthefish - The name on the face, A. Lattele (?) in Lincoln - would that be the retailer that sold the clock? None of the content was produced in England, was it? Is there any notation on the clock from repairs or service?

Jim

 

[soaringjoy]

Jim, I think it's "A. Sättele", perhaps a German dealer.
Back home, these fellows were called "England - Blackforesters".

In this case, I believe it was Alois Sättele, clockmaker, born 1830 in Furtwangen (GER), died 1904 in Lincoln (GB).
Other family members went to America and Australia.
The family names did appear as Satelle and Sattell too, later on.

 

[mickthefish]

mickthefish - The name on the face, A. Lattele (?) in Lincoln - would that be the retailer that sold the clock? None of the content was produced in England, was it? Is there any notation on the clock from repairs or service?

Jim

Hi there Jim, no there are no other marks or notations on the clock other than those on the face, and I would have to agree with Jurgen that the surname does begin with the letter 'S' and not 'L', certainly the case history Jurgen has discovered does seem to be compelling and would appear to fit very well.