German Schneider cuckoo questions

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Stu Riegel, Oct 29, 2019.

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  1. Stu Riegel

    Stu Riegel Registered User

    Jun 14, 2019
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    First let me say, German quality ain't what it used to be:

    DSC00737.JPG

    Must have been one of the last ones out the door before Oktoberfest.

    As far as I can tell, this is a fairly modern Schneider movement, numbers on it are Clock 859 and 25-N, along with some patent numbers and a GULA logo at the bottom. They may or may not show up in the pic.

    DSC00739.JPG

    Anyway, the little booger won't run. I can get it to tick if I pull on the right-hand chain, but the weight isn't enough to drive it by itself. The weights are original. Stopped running a couple months ago and Mom wants it running again.

    Question one: Is there a non-destructive way to access the movement? It looks like the case is glued together around the movement. No screws or nails anywhere but on the face (which I have put back right again). It appears that I'll have to blow the case apart to get to the movement. I consider myself halfway decent at woodwork, so it doesn't scare me, especially since it's made of modern plywood. It ought to glue back up nicely. But I want a non-destructive option if there is one.

    Question two: Anyone know what I should look for if/when I do get the movement out? Any known issues with this movement?
     
  2. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Jun 24, 2008
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    Stu, you are right about the quality declining. I looked at one recently that had glued bellows. They had to be removed in order to get the movement out. I refused to work on it. By the time you get the bellows out, you probably destroy them. Once you get the movement out you usually find it needs to be completely rebuilt or replaced. Once you rebuild or replace the movement and buy new bellows you destroyed, you have much more invested than the clock is worth. The only cuckoos I work on are the very old ones with quality movements. I guess it’s all about money. Thanks for providing a stump where I could vent. Good luck!
     
  3. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    The partial logo which you can see is that of REGULA (J. Buerger Soehne), providers of almost all modern cuckoo movements. [Anton] Schneider is the name of the retailer, not the manufacturer of the movement. Schneider deal in a large variety of cuckoo clocks.

    You don't show enough of the case and the movement to show how it is fixed in the case, but I hope it is not simply glued in. However, I have not had personal experience of Schneider clocks. If they buy in Regula movements, I suppose it is up to them how they fix them into the case. If it is just glued in, that is indeed sad.

    JTD
     
  4. Stu Riegel

    Stu Riegel Registered User

    Jun 14, 2019
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    That's the problem. If I could see how it's attached, I could detach it. Unfortunately, there are two large wooden blocks that support the plastic sound effects boxes, and those are glued in behind the movement. No hardware on the front behind the face, so I'm gonna have to break this thing at least a little in order to fix it. If I fix it. Might just go into the Broken Clock Hall of Shame.
     
  5. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    Take a small kitchen 'pairing' knife and force it in between the bottom of the bellow and case wall.

    Gradually apply more upward pressure and start to twist the blade. The bellow will pop loose, usually taking off a small strip of the case plywood.

    DONT TRY TO REPAIR THE WOOD.

    When it's time to replace the bellow/s just put it back exactly as it was. The broken wood will act as a key and hold the bellow in its original position. One small hole drilled in the side of your case with a #6 wood screw and your done.

    Note, if the bellow pops off cleanly, you will need the just mentioned side screw plus a small wire brad, placed about one inch below the screw to keep the bellow in place. IOWs fix it back just like they were made for the last 120 years.

    Look closely for lint and pet hair wrapped around the pivots and pinions. Also, check for wear at the upper two arbors on the time train.

    WIllie X
     
  6. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    And if you really are stuck, Schneiders are still very much in business - you could send an email and ask them. (info@antonschneider.de)

    JTD
     
  7. kologha

    kologha Registered User

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    I have just finished overhauling one of those which is about 30 years old and I found that the reason why it required extra weight to run was because the black forest suspension (also called trapese suspension) was worn. All you need to do is spread the lower arms slightly so that they have a new unworn section of wire to run on, and the problem is gone. After cleaning and oiling the clock will run like a new one.
     
  8. Stu Riegel

    Stu Riegel Registered User

    Jun 14, 2019
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    Interesting. I haven't really looked at it too much, is this something I can get at with the mechanism in place, or is a teardown in order?
     
  9. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    with all respect I dare to contradict: please more pics both general and in detail of the open clock from the back side. All to often I´ve found that after I didn´t know how to take things appart and after I used "force" and had the thing appart with damage it became clear to me how I could have avoided the mess I´d caused. E.G the pipes often are skrewed/pinned to the case and the pins/skrews covered with paint,so look carefully on the outside of the case; don´t "force" anything before You´re absolutely sure You have to...
    ( I learned it the hard way sometimes,too :rolleyes:)
    Burkhard
     
  10. kologha

    kologha Registered User

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    I very much doubt if you could do any work on the movement while it is in the clock. Look ar Burkhard's post and follow his advice! There are also videos on the Internet which show how to remove a cuckoo movt from it's case. The Black Forest suspension I mentioned above is the wire goody with two rings from which the pendulum hangs. The rings wear two flats on the wire from which they swing and thus dramatically increase the friction. You can see the part I am referring to at the top centre between the two angled bellows wires. If you spread them a little they will no longer swing on the worn areas. The clock I repaired also required two pivot holes to be bushed as well as a thorough service. Good luck!

    Regula sml.JPG
     
  11. Stu Riegel

    Stu Riegel Registered User

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    #11 Stu Riegel, Nov 13, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
    Here you go. This clock has a very small case.

    DSC00742.JPG

    Doesn't look to me like it's coming out without doing some woodwork.

    Here's a closeup of the Black Forest suspension. I can't detect any flat spots or places where the rings hang up. No room to spread the rings further apart; I suppose squeezing them together would work as well?

    DSC00744.JPG
     
  12. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    #12 Willie X, Nov 13, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
    By all means check for screws on the sides of the house. But, if you find none, the directions for removal are given in post #5. The little wire suspension can cause problems but rarely.

    Take it easy when prying the bellows loose. But it's kind of a crap shoot as to how much damage will result.

    The bellow in the photo is sort of a 'worst case' incedent but it was reused with no problems using a small amount of E-6000 craft adhesive and a spring clamp.

    Note, there is not much need to take your clock apart unless you have the means to do small scale bushing work. Willie X

    20190215_123952.jpg
     
  13. kologha

    kologha Registered User

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    You only have to open them up about 1mm. Look first from the top to see if there is wear. The clock I worked on would run but not enthusiastically, until after I spread the rings, then it ran very happily. However there was visible wear. On your clock the black goo around the pivots visible in the picture mean there is wear so the movt does need to come out and be cleaned so the wear can be assessed.
     
  14. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Stu,

    Your clock is either 18 years old, or 38 years old. Take your pick. Either way it's due for a service.

    I'm not sure when they started gluing in the bellows but that practice was short lived and seems to have stopped some years back.

    WIllie X
     
  15. JimmyOz

    JimmyOz Registered User

    Feb 21, 2008
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    All that Willie X said is what you need to do to get the bellows off, just be careful as they are a bit stubborn and the knife may slip. Before you attack the bellows, use a small braddle and make the hole in the side that is just deep enough to mark the sound box then it should go back in the same place when you screw it back on and add a small panel pin so it does not move.

    The movement looks stuffed, however there is a member on here that sells that movement so just get a new one, someone on here will know who he is?

    If you want to get a new movement there is a few things we can tell you when you are ready to put it in and how to go about it, it is simple stuff.
     
  16. Stu Riegel

    Stu Riegel Registered User

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    Update: Apparently all it really needed was attention. I gorilla'd the time-train chain down a bit, loosened the nut on the minute hand, something inside went plonk and it started running again. I think running sub-optimally is better than breaking it apart, so I'm gonna call it fixed.

    Thanks to all who replied.
     
  17. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    I wonder if those bellows even open! The papers appear to be glued on wrong. Someone had them out before to do whatever they did … so they should come out again. But that's the guy that probably glued them in.
     

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