Schatz Queen Anne battery clock.

Discussion in 'Electric Horology' started by Kevin W., Nov 22, 2009.

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  1. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    Not sure if ok to post this here as it is a battery clock.
    My buddy has one and his is missing the weight on the back of the c cell battery powered movement.
    just want to get a idea as to what weight looks like and diameter of it.I thought about 100 grams in weight, not sure what that is in ounces.
    Any other info would be nice or even a catalog advertisement for this clock.he was told these went for around 300 something in the 1960,s.
    Thanks to all for help.
     
  2. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    I've put this in the electric clocks forum since it seems more appropriate there and might find better exposure,
     
  3. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    Thanks Steven.:)
     
  4. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Kevin, some pictures might help. Are you talking about the pendulum?
    Can't recall ever seeing a weight driven battery powered movement, but I just know I haven't seen everything yet:D
     
  5. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    #5 Kevin W., Nov 22, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2009
  6. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Neat, Kevin, kind of like a swinger. Nope, never seen one.
     
  7. coldwar

    coldwar Registered User

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    HOLY COW I now see the counterweight is missing on mine as well. Haven't looked at this clock in years. Images as reference - CW


    PICT0011.gif
    PICT0010.gif
    PICT0012.gif
     
  8. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

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    The weight on those clocks was a flat oval pendulum about 1 1/2" wide by about 1" high, by about 1/4" thick, made of steel. As I recall, the pendulum had a hook on the top which hung from a sort of stirrup at the top of the movement. The pendulum had a vertical slot cut through the middle of it which surmounted the horizontal post on the escapement arm. I don't have one, but I worked at a store 40 years ago that sold these. If you need a sketch, let me know.
     
  9. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    AFAIK there are two types of "Schatz Elexacta"electromech.swingers: one like shown in the video with the mvmt.on top and a counterweight below acting like an inversion pendulum and one where the dial with mvmt.is suspended from a wall support and swings below it.Mvmts are not interchangable!Some are quiet ugly,but fascination clocks!
    Burkhard
     
  10. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    Friends,I have to revive that thread because I have aquired a Schatz Elexacta swinger as well,to be precise:The type with dial and mvmt.on top and the counterweight below like in the pics.Mine is missing the little pendulum that is attached to the small rod protruding from the mvmt.and should engage with the anchor via the crutch below that rod.There are two pieces of wire hanging from that post to hang a little gravitation pendulum on .Now my question:
    Does anybody here have a complete and working clock who could provide a photo of that pendulum missing,perhaps with infos about lenth and weight of the pendulum bob?I have to rebuild it,I do have certain ideas of how to do,but it would save me a lot of try and error if someone here had correct datas.The YOUTUBE video is a bit blury and dark,I cannot see it exactly.TIA
    Burkhard
     
  11. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

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    In an earlier post, I offered to provide a sketch and approximate dimensions of what the original weight looked like on these clocks, but nobody has taken me up on it. Interested?
     
  12. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    Dough,Yes please!
    Burkhard
     
  13. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    Yes Doug it would be of interest.
     
  14. oldticker

    oldticker Registered User

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    this might help.
    the little black pendulum looking thing on the left is what you need. Couldn't get a better picture.
     

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  15. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

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    #15 doug sinclair, Jan 9, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
    Thanks to 'oldticker's" great picture of the clock with the pendulum, you'll get an idea of comparative size. I don't have a pendulum to measure. Perhaps old ticker could provide dimensions. When this pendulum is on the clock, the weight is ABOVE the horizontal post on the pallet arm. There is no suspension spring.

    Please disregard the sketch showing the rating nut. Regulation is done with the "onion" shaped lower tip of the swinging clock case. The second sketch is better. It would be good if "oldticker" could provide the actual dimensions.
     

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  16. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    Doug in a earlier reply you gave the dimensions of the pendulum.
     
  17. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    #17 Burkhard Rasch, Jan 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2010
    Thanks,Doug and Oldticker!Great!Now I´ve at least an idea of what I´m after.Since that thing isn´t a pendulum in the usual sense but rather just a "representative of gravity" in the swinging clock hanging downwards,allmost not moving,methinks that dimensions are not that critical.I´ll try to rebuild it and keep You informed!THanks again to everybody helping to revive that fascinating clock!
    Burkhard
     
  18. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

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    Kevin,

    The original diagram was a bit smaller than the replacement. I did mention on the original drawing that the pendulum should be about 1/3 larger. However, this second diagram is closer to 1:1 size. The pendulum is steel, about 6 to 7 mm thick, and quite heavy. Hopefully "oldticker" will get back to us with dimensions.

    Doug
     
  19. any400day

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    Hi Guys,

    Hope the attached picture and dimensions will be of help.

    Vic
     

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  20. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

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    The answer! Great! Thanks!
     
  21. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    Oldticker,thank You for Your help so far!It looks as if You had kind of operating instruction for this clock as well?Could You post them also?TIA
    Burkhard
     
  22. oldticker

    oldticker Registered User

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    #22 oldticker, Jan 12, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
    Sorry i didn't get back to you before.
    I don't have any more info i'm afraid, i used to repair these a lot of years ago (1980's) for H Samuel which was a huge retailer at the time. I think we all regret not keeping some momento's of them days now but you can't go back in time :(

    I pinched the picture from somewhere else, however i do remember that the black 'pendulum' piece is like a counterweight and keeps the motion of the clock going when it is started by hand.
    Something else to note is that in the 80's we used to have new parts available and used to change the bearings and cups that the clock swings on. Check these as they wear but are not available anymore.
    Regulation is done by turning the brass part near the bottom of the clock.
    To put the clock in beat you adjust the black part at the top behind the dial.

    That diagram by any400day is what you are looking for - brilliant!

    Hope this helps.
    -> posts merged by system <-

    you might find this interesting - a film of the clock working but someone has put a bit of tape on the bottom of the pend.

    And YES if the bracket is square on the wall you CAN put it on backwards to see if it is working properly. There are a few clocks here to watch.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MwzGffOthU
     
  23. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    Thank You again,oldticker!Aren´t they fascinating?I have a friend,retired teacher of maths and physic,he has shown me the physical background of inversion-or as You say compound pendula.OMG,I cannot understand all that formulas!I hope I have mine working in about a fourtnight.
    After I saw that video on Youtube I´m allmost infected with the bug of getting an example with the mvmt being suspended from a wallmount and swinging below!
    Burkhard
     
  24. tickntock1

    tickntock1 Registered User

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    I've got an Elexacta just like the one is the UTube video and have some problems with the measurements in the photo of the pendulum. In the pendulum photo, it indicates that the length of the pendulum in 66mm with the slot for the crutch at the bottom. Looking at the reverse of my clock, the distance from the pendulum support to the post of the crutch is only 35mm.
    If the pendulum from the photo were used, the slot for the post would fall more than an inch below where it should.

    In the Utube video, the pendulum used appears to be much shorter than what is shown in the diagram.

    Were there two pendulum lengths utilized for the Elexacta? Or is the 66mm an incorrect measurement?

    Thanks for your help,
    Jim
     
  25. coldwar

    coldwar Registered User

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    Here is the factory Schatz quartz retrofit kit for Elexacta, I forgot I had. $65 in early 1980's money. Note coil at top of mech, and magnets on top of provided wall bracket, maintaining a decorative swing. Best - CW


    122.jpg
     
  26. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    I don´t know for sure,but I think You´re right.They changed the layout of the mvmt.several times keeping the name "Elexacta" to confuse us.If the distance between post and crutch is 35mm in Your clock,use a pendulum with the bob hanging below the crutch as usual,I´d guess about 66mm total length.As I said it´s not a pendulum in the usual sense but a "representative of graviation",so IMHO length should not be that critical
    Burkhard
     
  27. oldticker

    oldticker Registered User

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    JIM

    I'm going from memory now when i say i think they DID do a few different size of 'weight' to these clocks.
     
  28. rickyn

    rickyn Registered User
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    I hope I'm not too late. This is another version of the pendulum for the Schatz Queen Anne clock with dimensions listed. It hangs from a silk loop.

    Rick
     

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  29. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    Thanks Rickyn, a few variations of this pendulum.Interesting how it changed some what.
    I will print it out for future reference, and a buddy of mine has this clock.
     
  30. Gianluca

    Gianluca Registered User

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    Hi! i'm the owner of the schatz elexacta posted on youtube .
    just for let you know that the longer pendulum bob it is for the electronic movement like that in the attached picture...
    In the video you can see what it seems a piece of tape ..
    it is not tape ,it is a little magnete that i have applied to help the clock in the keeping time
     

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  31. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    Bought that fishy green ugly beast for the original pendulum only!Found some rust below the battery compartment as a result of leakage.Payed 30€.After 3 hours it´s running beautyfully.The mvmt. is of great quality,the anchor like in a 400 dayer highly polished with no traces of use,nice 5 spoke e.w. and a small spring for power supply which is wound electromechanicly every +-50sec.
    Now it´s way out of regulation since the alcaline battery is heavier than the old zinc-carbon,I have to look for a smaller battery and a matching adapter,but:it´s swinging!
    Burkhard
     

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  32. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

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    Quite nice Burkhard, i dont see thse around here often, actually only seen one.
    I saw the diagram of the small pendulum that goes in the movement, would it weigh about 4 ounces?
     
  33. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    Friends,can anybody tell me the exact weight of an oldfashioned zink/carbon monocell used in this clock?Reason is:The modern batteries are too heavy which brings the clock completely out of regulation.Now I´ve bought a plastic battery-adapter that is -even with two mignon cells-way too light for regulation.I want to know what weight I have to ad to come into the range of regulation.Please help if You can!TIA
    Burkhard
     
  34. Gianluca

    Gianluca Registered User

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    #34 Gianluca, Feb 1, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
    Hi! 90-100 grams for stay in the middle of the regulation (battery c with adapter, as you can see in the youtube clip, which is exactly 85,6 grams )

    search in ebay : battery adapter/converter 3 size adaptors in 1 module
     
  35. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    Got mine regulated:Found a plastic battery adapter for two mignons giving 1.5V ,put the regulation nut right in the middle of the scale and added flat pieces of lead into the adapter until it reached +/-1-2 min/day,then regulated with the nut.It now keeps better than 1 min/week.If it only had not that fishy green:rolleyes:
    Burkhard
     
  36. Gianluca

    Gianluca Registered User

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    Hi
    Thank you ! good to know that your clock it is a good time keeper. I have 3 queen anne but none of them are good time keepers : all the 3 with the same defect :without the little magnet they suffer of a kind of "fluttering " (as in the 400 days) ..and i have to regulate it every 3-4 days ... I will try to understand why ...

    Gianluca
     
  37. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    Not that I´m an expert on these,but:Yes,they tend to flutter with the original pendulum,and I think I know why.The original pendulum is verry short,and the bob is attached to the center of the pendulum rod,not at the bottom as usual.The suspension with these little wire loops is quiet loose,alowing too much play when the pendulum goes through the "dead point"in the middle of its swinging arch where the fluttering occurs.In my fishy green beast I have an improvised pendulum made from a piece of wire and some steel washers.This pendulum is longer,and the washers as substitute for a bob hand from the bottom,so IMHO the leverage is changed and it does not flutter.I´ll show pics the next days of my homemade pendulum.
    Burkhard
     
  38. Gianluca

    Gianluca Registered User

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    thank you for reply ! Yesterday i have cleaned and oiled the movement
    i thought that the flutter could be done cause a consuption of the escape wheel teeth and i tried to recuperate something approaching the anchor but the clock was still fluttering so ,sadly :( i have reapplied the magnete
    what you say it is reasonable, but when the clock was new i don't think it was suffering of flutter ....
     
  39. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    Pics of homemade pendulum as promised.
    Has anybody spare parts for these?I´m in need of one supporting rod with the small steel ball at the tip and two jewelled bearings for the wall hanger.Please PM if You can help me out!TIA
    Burkhard
     

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  40. Gianluca

    Gianluca Registered User

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    :)thank you all for the information sharing ! I have rebuilt the pendulum bob in my queen anne with electronic movement el73-1.
    I have used a iron plate 2mm thick and a plate 1mm thick to make the hanger.
    the weight it is exactly 43grams .
    Here's the result:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRq9tC9XPmQ

    In the mean time I have found an original one ,but not arrived to me yet
     

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