Schatz Electric Torsion Clock

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by Noel Branson, May 2, 2020.

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  1. Noel Branson

    Noel Branson Registered User

    Oct 28, 2019
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    I was recently given a Schatz electric torsion clock and could do with some information. I hope someone can help me with it. It's a torsion clock similar in appearance to a type 53, and is date stamped "11/56"
    When I got it, the battery holder was badly corroded so I fitted a new one and now it runs, although it does occasionally flutter. But I can fix that.
    The problem I have is that I can't find any information about it anywhere apart from a YouTube video which doesn't help much. There is an adjustment lever on the backplate, and I would like to know what it does. It's graduated and marked + and - and is connected to an open hairspring which I surmise is the mainspring, but the function of the lever is a mystery! Can anyone tell me what it's for? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. tracerjack

    tracerjack Registered User
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    Plus and minus signs are for minor adjustments to the time rate of the clock. The symbols are used in place of “fast” and “slow”. If the time is too fast, move to the minus side. If too slow, move to the plus side. They can only change the rate by small amounts. If all the way to one side doesn’t bring the clock into correct time keeping, then the movement needs repair.
     
  3. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    A picture might help, both of the clock in general and the lever. I suspect that the clock is of the variety Schatz called Bambino...they were 8-day clocks. Search the forum for Bambino.

    The lever, if it has a connection to its bigger cousin 400-day clocks, is to speed up or slow down the clock. Moving the lever to the + would make it run faster; to the - would make it run slower.

    A moderator may move this to the Electric section of the forum if warranted.

    Kurt
     
  4. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Oct 25, 2010
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    The Schatz BA movements are gravity driven torsion clocks with electric wind and maintaining power. Time keeping adjustment is just like the Schatz 53 movements and they use the same suspension.
    plate.jpg

    Power for the movement is provided by gravity acting on an off balance beam which drives the center wheel through a ratchet wheel and a hairspring. The hairspring attached between the ratchet wheel arbor and center wheel provides the maintaining power. The center wheel is clutched to the center arbor just like in the 53 movements.
    beam2a.jpg beam3a.jpg

    The rewind occurs when a contact on the beam touches the armature of a solenoid which completes an electrical circuit energizing the solenoid and throws the beam back to its top position. A pair of gravity pawls at the top of the ratchet wheel keep it from turning backward, and a single spring loaded pawl on the beam slips on the ratchet wheel as the beam moves back to its top position. The spring loaded pawl on the beam then drives the ratchet wheel to provide the going power for the clock.

    The gears and hairspring on the back plate provide a pre-load for the beam against the solenoid. This is probably just a factory adjustment. Changing the pre-load setting would probably change the length of the of time between winding cycles, but I have no reason to test this.
    beam1a.jpg

    Hope this all makes sense.

    Eric
     
  5. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    Eric is right in that the adjuster changes the preload of the spring.To my understanding the clock is spring driven. The big "beam" in his pics has additional weights on both sides and is fitted with a shaft in the middle,so it is actually balanced.When the kick wind occurs,it is thrown out of its resting position about 60° in one direction thereby loading additional power to the spring which drives the train.If this power is consumed by running a couple of minutes the contact closes again and the game starts all over.With the adjuster the spring is brought to such a tension that it is able to power the train. If the clock is running don´t bother it.
    Correct me if I´m wrong.....
    Burkhard
     
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  6. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Burkhard,
    You're probably right. If the beam is balanced than the only source for going power would be the adjustable spring at the back. Mine works so I have no desire to take it apart to find out how it works exactly.

    I was comparing to the Kern version which is very obviously weight driven.

    Eric
     
  7. Noel Branson

    Noel Branson Registered User

    Oct 28, 2019
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    Guys,

    Thanks for the help. That all makes a lot of sense. And you're right,- if it's not broke, don't fix it. I was just curious as to what the
    little lever was for. Also it's good to know how it's powered. So it's essentially a weight-driven torsion clock? Interesting. And a nice thing to have in my collection.
    Incidentally, while I'm here, I thought I'd let you know that my sister's Atmos is fine now, and the experience enabled me to fix mine too.
    Thanks again for your help with those too!
     
  8. Noel Branson

    Noel Branson Registered User

    Oct 28, 2019
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    An update on this interesting little clock. As I said earlier, the battery clips on mine were so badly corroded that I couldn't use them, so, like the one in the youtube video, I was running it on a single AA battery. Problem was that it only ran for about a minute between rewinds, and I could see that the beam was only being partly "recharged". Half of the time, the clock would flutter at rewind time due to the (small) shock as the solenoid operated, sometime twice or three times before the ratchets caught. I am an electronics engineer by trade, so I decided to check the electrical parts of the clock. The battery holder was obviously designed for a No.8 battery, virtually unobtainable now, but it was a twin-cell pack, and thus delivered 3 volts nominal. So I fitted a twin AA battery holder in place of the original rusty mess and it has really transformed the clock's operation! I'm now getting a much more substantial wind, it's going for almost 5 minutes between rewind events and it doesn't flutter anymore. Also it will give a more longer battery life. Result! Just thought I'd share this in case anyone finds it useful...
     
  9. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    #9 Burkhard Rasch, Jun 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
    all kickwinders of the 50ies run on 3Volts or even on 4.5Volts , nothing below, learned that myself couple of month ago.
    Once again to make that clear : the Schatz is spring powered and the preload of that spring can be adjusted with that small index on the back plate.The comparable Kern is weight driven,the kick -magnet throws up a little arm with a weight at one end and a ratchet system at the other.I try to post pics this evening.
    Burkhard
     
  10. Noel Branson

    Noel Branson Registered User

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    Thanks Burkhard. I keep learning something new every day! I've also learned that a replacement compatible battery is now available so I'll be looking to rebuild the old battery holder. That'll be fun!
     
  11. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Burkhard mentioned the Kern version of these clocks. I have one with Paico on the dial. I posted about it in this thread...maybe some of the pictures would be useful.

    Paico - Kern and Sohne Battery Powered Clock

    Kurt
     
  12. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    AFAIK there is a third concept with these realized by Kundo : a battery-powered remontoir working with a little electric motor winding a spring.I have to find one sometimes....
    Burkhard
     

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