Schatz 54 1000

[Dells]

I have a Schatz 54 1000 day on the bench that has had a major mishap the centre of the mainspring is no longer around the arbor, bent the first wheel broke pivots on second and third ( intermediate) wheels , and as it's been stood on a shelf in a kitchen for 20 plus years it's a bit of a mess, although I can probably straighten the first wheel arbor and re pivot the second and third wheels ( not done one that small before) if someone has spares then I think that would be the way to go , I am in UK and they are rare over here but I don't mind paying postage from USA .
Thanks Dell
Parts wanted
First wheel
Second wheel
Third ( intermediate) wheel
Dial ( because this one is a mess )
I have posted on the parts wanted but I am putting it on here because I am fairly sure that parts from another Schatz are interchangeable but I can’t remember what.
Dell

 

[Schatznut]

Dell, I rebuild Schatz 54s in batches and have a good assortment of spares. Contact me via PM and I'll be able to help you.

 

[Collector]

MY Clock
Model Name: Schatz 1000 Day Rectangular
Image Title: Schatz 1000 Day
Clock Dated 03 59 (March 1959)
-Plastic side panels
-Arabic Numerals

It won't wind. Seems to be wound too tight. Is there a way to fix this. Can't find a pic on-line. Is this rare?

Sue S.

 

[Schatznut]

Hello, Sue, and welcome to the forums! We'll be able to help you figure out what's wrong if you can provide us with some more information. There really isn't such a thing as "wound too tight" - if it's fully wound and doesn't run, there is a problem that will need to be diagnosed and fixed.

Please start by posting some photos of the clock, with the top removed, particularly from the top, back and sides. A close-up of the anchor pin and suspension fork (at the top back of the clock) would be be helpful.

if you can answer a few questions, that will help us help you:

Has the clock run for you previously?
Is it level?
Can you see any damage to the suspension spring supporting the pendulum - twists or kinks?
Does the pendulum turn freely when it is in the unlocked position?
When was the last time it was serviced?

Let's start there and see what we can do to get it going.

 

[KurtinSA]

Welcome to the message board, Sue! I wouldn't call it that rare, but 1000-day clocks came along later in the scheme of things. We'd need to see some pictures to get a sense of what you're looking at.

I'm thinking that the clock is already fully wound. You might be able to verify this by carefully using a finger tip or end of a pencil to push the pin back and forth that sticks up from what's called the anchor. If you do that and the finely toothed wheel near it turns a little each time, then the clock is wound up. It might not do anything indicating that maybe the movement and/or main spring is corroded or restricting movement.

If we think that the spring is fully wound, then maybe it's a matter of just starting the pendulum to rotate to see if the clock would run. Likely it will need to be "adjusted" to put into what's called "beat". The beat is all about even distribution of power.

If you want to let the spring down, then you would need a key and preferably something called a letdown chuck (a key of sorts with a plastic handle) to wind the clock counter clockwise when looking at the back of the clock. The most difficult thing is that you must release a click mechanism that is buried behind the front plate of the clock. I usually use something like a chopstick. Word of warning, letting the power down must be safely controlled. If the spring tension gets away from you, there is a good chance you will hurt yourself as well as do damage to the clock.

If you can tell, us a little more what you're trying to do!

Kurt

 

[Buckadoo]

Hi there fellow Anniversary Clock enthusiasts! I'm new to the forum but have loved these clocks for over 50 years. I've been reading all the forums regarding 400 and 1000 day clocks the last few days to learn about their parts, how they work and common problems.

Recently I acquired a Schatz 54, 1000 day clock, made 9/55 with the glass dome. It did run for 15 minutes after I leveled and unlocked it and then it stopped. (didnt wind it as I don't have the key) Overall, mechanically it appears to have all the parts intact and is in decent condition, except the brass coated bakelite base.

The recent history of this clock includes being stored in my father's attic for at least the last 20 years. Upon close inspection the suspension spring looks good, hangs straight and it has the fork and pin on top of the anchor ? that will move the wheel if the weights turn. It will not complete a revolution for movement or click unless I gently manually turn the ball weights. I thought it might need winding and tried to gently make one cc turn with a wrench to see if there was any tension on the mainspring. The spring locking wheel did click/move 1 tooth and then I felt great resistance, so I stopped. (I apologize I'm learning the correct part names, but don't remember them all as of yet.) The spring seems wound tight...

Whomever last oiled the clock really over saturated it, so much so that the greenish oil has filled many of the mechanism's teeth. I was able to absorb some of it with the edge of a tissue, so its somewhat still fluid, but everything needs to be cleaned.

From what I've learned so far, I believe that the mainspring is stuck/corroded because of the oil and it's sitting wound for 20 years in the ever changing climate of an attic. I'm going to order a let-down tool with plans to replace the MS when dissembled. I've been searching to find the size of this MS but have only read that it's bigger than the 400 day clock. I can't see any markings on the current MS case, so without removing it I have no idea what spring to buy...and I really don't feel good about trying to open the barrel to remove it after it's let down. I have seen some MS in the brass barrels for sale, which I think is the best way for me to go. Does anyone know what size I should look for? Should I also replace the suspension spring, even though it was in locked position all this time?

Any input is greatly appreciated!
I will post photos asap.
Thank you all very much!
Dani

 

[KurtinSA]

Welcome Dani! Nice to see that a family heirloom is cared for going forward. It certainly does look like the clock needs some TLC...there should be no hint of that much oil and color on the clock.

You should probably get a key for the clock...measure the winding arbor across the flats with a digital caliper and get something to fit that. Actually, if you're getting a let down tool, you can probably use that to wind as well.

You going to need to consider how to get the main spring out of the barrel...lots of power on the 1000 day clock. There are purpose built devices, one being an Ollie Baker. There are homemade items...search the forum for a "Joe Collins" winder.

I wouldn't worry about a suspension spring just yet...unless the one you have has kinks or bends in it. Likely it is OK. As for the main spring, you need one that is designated as "21 50"...the 21 indicates the width of the spring and 50 is the diameter of the inside of the barrel...metric measurements.

Kurt

 

[Buckadoo]

Thanks for the reply Kurt!

I have measured the flat winding arbor and it came out to 4.25 mm, which I believe is a #8 key...to be ordered as well!

Removing the MS from the barrel and then having to clean and then re-wind it is likely too much for me. I understand the process and that there are winding tools, but I'll likely skip that and just replace the whole thing in one piece. I will look for the spring you suggest. I'd like to assume the barrels for the 21 50 spring are the same size, same tooth count, is that correct?

Thanks!
Dani

 

[KurtinSA]

That size barrel is quite unique...not that many uses as far as I know. Where are you located? Maybe there's a NAWCC local chapter that you could get some help or at least get recommendations for some commercial clock business to service the barrel.

Kurt

 

[Schatznut]

Dani, if you want to contact me via PM, I can help you with the mainspring. The "greenish goo" is oil that over the years has turned into a good approximation of glue - which is perhaps the biggest reason the clock won't run. And that also suggests the mainspring is pretty well glued into the barrel. Until all that's taken care of, it isn't going to run.

 

[Buckadoo]

Here are my pics as promised. There are a total of 12, even though the lettered names are not in alphabetical order. BTW, I know the clock is not level while on the towel for photos.

 

[Buckadoo]

3 more with close up of the MS showing some of the oil still on it. Whomever oiled it last drenched it and it oozed out while sitting in the attic, coating every gear. Fortunately though, it seems to have all the parts!