Schatz 53

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by Brian George, Oct 25, 2019.

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  1. Brian George

    Brian George Registered User

    Oct 25, 2019
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    I have come into possession of a Schatz 53 400-day clock that my deceased father brought home when stationed in Germany. I know it is a common clock and not really worth much...other than the sentimental value.

    The problem it, it is disassembled as someone evidently took it apart trying to repair it. I think all of the pieces are there but, of course, I do not know for sure.

    Is there someplace that I can locate a gear diagram for this clock? I think if I knew where each of the gears were to be placed, I might just be able to get this thing running again.

    Any information is appreciated.
     
  2. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Hi Brian, i have such a clock. I dont know of any diagrams but someone may have a pic of the clock apart and the wheels still in the plate, that would be a big help.If you dont get a reply i can take one of mine apart and take a photo of it.
     
  3. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

    Jun 24, 2011
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    The escape wheel and anchor go, respectively, above the center wheel that's still in the front plate. Working down from the center wheel, just add the remaining wheels from smallest/weakest to largest/strongest ending with the spring barrel.
    It's really much easier done than said.
     
  4. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    Welcome to the message board, Brian! I routinely take pictures of parts of my clocks during overhaul so I can figure out where they go. Here's pictures of a Type 53 that I recently worked on.

    Kurt

    Type53-1.jpg Type53-2.jpg Type53-3.jpg Type53-4.jpg
     
  5. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    #5 etmb61, Oct 25, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
    Hi Brian,

    I don't know of any diagrams out there but can take some pictures for you. First off, there are two types of Schatz 53 movements, one has legs, the other doesn't. Aside from that they are identical. Here are a couple of other views.

    PC083884.JPG PC083885.JPG

    Eric

    It's like everyone's sitting around waiting for someone to ask a question. Ah Retirement!
     
  6. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Thanks to the other posters, Kurtin had some pics. Assembly is not bad for these clocks, but then you will need to put it in beat as well.
     
  7. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Getting the escapement set right can be a pain.
     
  8. Brian George

    Brian George Registered User

    Oct 25, 2019
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    Thanks everyone. I believe I have it all back together correctly thanks to your help and pictures!
    However, the suspension spring is too short...I'm guess it was broken somewhere along the line.

    So, now I'll need to order one of those..I've read .0023 but also read .0024. Any thoughts on which one?

    Also, I wish I knew what "escapement" was:???:??
     
  9. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

    Jun 24, 2011
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    It's .0023" in almost all cases.
    If the person who took this clock apart was thinking about reassembly, you may not have to worry too much about "escapement".
    Look for some scribed marks on the back plate that align with the bottom edge of the bracket that holds the suspension. If they are there, you may be able to align the bracket as it was before disassembly (the bracket is slightly loose in its mounting.) and not have to learn all about escapement geometry.

    Because the escapement geometry issue comes up so often where torsion clocks are concerned, I'm trying to think of an oversimplified instruction for getting it set (at least in a way that gets the clock running in a minimalist fashion)..
     
  10. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Hi Brian,

    The escapement is basically made up of these two parts:
    Type53-3b.jpg The anchor above and the escape wheel below. This is where a clock gets its tick-tock. The relationship between the two is critical to proper operation of the clock.

    As Martin said, For a Schatz 53 adjustment is made by the position on the suspension bracket:
    bracket.jpg by moving it up, down, left, and right within the range of its two mounting screws.

    The first one I worked on I got it right the first time. Others I have make good paper weights and book ends.

    A 0.0023" Horolovar spring will be correct for the pendulum shown in my second picture above. Schatz used three different pendulums with 53 movements.

    Eric
     
  11. Brian George

    Brian George Registered User

    Oct 25, 2019
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    Ok, I received the suspension springs. When I go to install them, what do I do with the excess length? Is it trimmed off or is is supposed to wrap around the the bigger screw at the very top?
     
  12. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Any excess length is trimmed away. Be sure when you go to cut...if you cut it too short, you may have to start over with a new spring. Best to err on the long side and then trim little at a time.

    Kurt
     
  13. Brian George

    Brian George Registered User

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    Thanks. All hooked and spinning.... now if I could just keep it running:???:?
     
  14. Brian George

    Brian George Registered User

    Oct 25, 2019
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    Well, everything is back together and I can see that, when the pendulum is swinging, everything seems to be moving as it should be. After a forceful start of the pendulum, the clock will run for 5 or 10 minutes but will slowly come to a stop. It's as if it is not getting any power from the spring. Do you believe this is an adjustment issue or is something else wrong?

    Appreciate the assistance!
     
  15. Wayne A

    Wayne A Registered User

    Sep 24, 2019
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    It could be a few things. With the 53 getting the anchor pivot set is the first thing to do. Thing is getting it right requires visual feedback and testing by hand. This is the way I go at it no doubt there's half a dozen other ways. For this you need some spring power so wind in a turn or so if you don't have it already. Then remove suspension spring safely out of the way so you can rock the anchor by hand. I lower the right side of the suspension bracket fully and slightly snug it, then lower the left side a little at a time while rocking the anchor the whole time watching for binding. When binding occurs and it should by the left side of the anchor digging into the rear of a tooth. then raise it a little to clear. Easy to say but it takes a few go's to get it right where it needs to be and never bind. So I try to set the suspension as low as possible without binding. Then there's setting the beat.
     
  16. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    My first visual with a clock is to look at how the escape wheel "snaps" onto the lock face of the pallet. It should be a crisp motion, not sluggish. If it's not crisp, then there is a power issue.

    Kurt
     
  17. Antonio Marinovic

    Antonio Marinovic New Member

    Nov 9, 2019
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    Hi Brian,

    Perhaps you have to go backwards and recheck if the movement is working properly or not. Below I am copying a post from John Hubby providing very interesting information on the movement cleaning/ assembly process, which I hope will be of use to you. Special attention should be paid to the condition of the mainspring and also to the 3-click test.

    "Now; clean, INSPECT, repair/adjust if necessary, lube and reassemble is paramount for good long term operation of these beasties. By INSPECT, I mean every pivot for truth and polish, every gear tooth (including the barrel) for straightness and no burrs bumps or bent teeth, and the mainspring to ensure it's not coned, rusted or otherwise unsuitable to operate. Burnish the anchor pin and suspension fork tines to remove all roughness. Set the anchor on a level surface and make sure the anchor pin is exactly vertical when viewed from either end of the arbor.

    On reassembly (first without the pallet arbor) do a SLOW "one click-two click-three-click" trial winding the mainspring. Your escape wheel should start spinning away at two clicks on the mainspring. If it takes four or more, you've got interference somewhere (check endplay!) and you need then to strip down, reinspect everything, and reassemble a couple gears at a time until you find the culprit."
    Well, if you already went through the above steps successfully, you will have to focus in the escapement assembly, for which I believe the information provided for Wayne and Kurt above will be of use to you.

    Antonio
     
  18. Brian George

    Brian George Registered User

    Oct 25, 2019
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    Well, thanks to everyone. It seems as though things are clean and straight. I used a very small amount of clock oil on all of the pivot points.

    THE GOOD NEWS: With some adjustments to the escapement assembly, the clock has been running for a few hours.
    THE BAD NEWS: It runs very fast....it moved about 1 hr and 15 minutes in about 20 minutes of real time. There are times when, after about 2-3 turns of the pendulum, the minute hand clicks forward about three minutes. Other times, the minute hand appears to move as it should.

    Another adjustment I assume?
     
  19. Wayne A

    Wayne A Registered User

    Sep 24, 2019
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    Sounds like your are experiencing whats called "flutter" its when the anchor rocks back and forth quickly on the escape wheel. Typical corrective action is to raise the fork a small amount, say .5mm and try it again.
     

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