Schatz 53, 54 and JUM/7

[clksmyhobby]

Good day,

I have some observations and a question about Schatz miniature movements. Here is what I have observed regarding approximate total rotation with the clocks in my collection:

53 dome-type, plate 1013 11-54, 3 ball pendulum - 300 degrees
53 dome-type, plate 1013 1-56, 3 ball pendulum - 300 degrees
53 coach-type, plate 1013 9-54, 4 ball pendulum - 360 degrees
53 coach-type, plate 1013A 9-60, 4 ball pendulum - 360 degrees
54 coach, plate 1010A 1-56, 4 ball pendulum - 360 degrees
JUM/7 dome-type, plate 1013B 11-57, 4 ball pendulum - 260 degrees
JUM/7 dome-type, plate 1013B 11-58, 4 ball pendulum - 260 degrees

All have sufficient over swing to maintain operation. There is an obvious consistency in rotation, either related to the type or my technique, or both. I adjust the support bracket as necessary to get the clock in an operational condition, then I stop trying to tweak it.

The question for those who have these clock types:

Are my total rotation figures similar to yours? or do you see more/less rotation?

I realize that over swing is the key for long-term operation, but larger swings are more pleasing from a visual standpoint, at least for me. With the fixed pallets in the anchor, I can't see how further adjustment would create more rotation. Fork adjustments make some difference, but not significant in my view.

I appreciate any and all feedback.

Thanks in advance and best regards,
Mike

 

[KurtinSA]

I only have two Type 53s currently running.

53 coach-type, plate 1013 9-54, 4 ball pendulum - 300 degrees
53 coach-type, plate 1013 4-55, 4 ball pendulum - 300 degrees

I don't think there's any real standard as to how much rotation you will get. Seems like that will be a function of the health of the clock, pivots/holes, main spring, and how the escapement is optimized.

Once I get sufficient over swing for continued operation, I basically leave it alone with no more tweaking.

Kurt

 

[clksmyhobby]

Thanks, Kurt.

I had one Haller standard that reached 450 degrees rotation, the most I've ever seen in a 400 day clock. Gave that clock away several years ago and my other Hallers don't come close to that. Someone recently gave me a nice one, white with painted roses, and I did not have one like that. Yep, has plastic anchor and other parts. Running now with very nearly 360 rotation.

A recent thread said that you can never have too many clocks. Well, I'm coming very close to that "too many" area. And now I'm doing cuckoo clocks too. They are interesting and different.

Mike

 

[KurtinSA]

I'm pretty sure I have too many clocks. I have probably 30-40 clocks on plastic shelves from Home Depot...the shelves were intended to just hold my incoming clocks that needed repair. I've overhauled all of them so the good side of that is that I can't take any more on! I intended to build at least a couple of new shelves to display these clocks, opening me up for more to find their way to me. My problem is that I have no sufficient wall space to accept any more shelves. Kind of Catch-22.

Kurt

 

[Ken M]

Are they running on those things?

 

[KurtinSA]

Are they running on those things?

Is that a question to me? If so, the answer is no...they are just sitting waiting for some decent shelf space.

Kurt

 

[Ken M]

Yes. I couldn't imagine them running on those.

 

[Wayne A]

Setup matters allot and so does mainspring health and how much its currently wound. If you set a clock for max rotation at full wind does it still run at 1 turn on the mainspring? Sometimes its not going to run at 1 turn. So you end up making a compromise with overswing at low power which eats into your max rotation at full wind. Then on the other hand a 1 turn set up may flutter at full wind, joy!
I can see 5 Schatz 53's as I type and well there's a range or rotation and I have no idea where any of my clocks are in the wind, 270, 280, 370, 370, 420. (Don't know whats up with that 420, it just goes!)
4 Jum/7's, 230, 240, 300, 310.
3 54's, 280, 310, 320.

Have two Edgar Henn's doing 500deg+,

Wayne

 

[clksmyhobby]

Thanks, Wayne.

Interesting the variations you see in your clocks. I have observed that a full wind-up does increase over-swing somewhat and thus total rotation. The clocks I mentioned were let down and wound back 3 full turns for comparison. I haven't replaced a main spring in any of those. After servicing a clock I usually do the setup with 1 to 1 1/2 turns, then fully wind.

420! Have never observed one that large, and for sure not the 500+.

Mike

 

[Ken M]

I checked my Edgar Henn, that's doing 400+. Surprised me.

 

[Noel Branson]

I have 3 Schatz clocks.
My 53, date 8-54, 3-ball rotates 360
53 type BA, 11-56, 3-ball rotates 360
JUM7 type BA, 7-57, 4-ball does 540!
I know the BA figures probably aren't relevant to this discussion, but the pendulums are virtually identical so maybe they are... Anyway I only have these three in my Schatz department.
(Currently!)

 

[gazzacan]

Good day,

I have some observations and a question about Schatz miniature movements. Here is what I have observed regarding approximate total rotation with the clocks in my collection:

53 dome-type, plate 1013 11-54, 3 ball pendulum - 300 degrees
53 dome-type, plate 1013 1-56, 3 ball pendulum - 300 degrees
53 coach-type, plate 1013 9-54, 4 ball pendulum - 360 degrees
53 coach-type, plate 1013A 9-60, 4 ball pendulum - 360 degrees
54 coach, plate 1010A 1-56, 4 ball pendulum - 360 degrees
JUM/7 dome-type, plate 1013B 11-57, 4 ball pendulum - 260 degrees
JUM/7 dome-type, plate 1013B 11-58, 4 ball pendulum - 260 degrees

All have sufficient over swing to maintain operation. There is an obvious consistency in rotation, either related to the type or my technique, or both. I adjust the support bracket as necessary to get the clock in an operational condition, then I stop trying to tweak it.

The question for those who have these clock types:

Are my total rotation figures similar to yours? or do you see more/less rotation?

I realize that over swing is the key for long-term operation, but larger swings are more pleasing from a visual standpoint, at least for me. With the fixed pallets in the anchor, I can't see how further adjustment would create more rotation. Fork adjustments make some difference, but not significant in my view.

I appreciate any and all feedback.

Thanks in advance and best regards,
Mike

I have in total 53 torsion anniversary clocks ( all running at time of this message ) and i have struggled with this problem clocks of the same make and model but with differen rotation amount ( from 220- 380) I have tried servicing the clock and even replacing the main spring and this does increase the rotation, but the most noticable increase is getting a good suspension spring with the correct blocks on and absolutely no kinks or bends in the wire and the correct thickness of wire most of my clocks now do 300-360 with the best time keeprs are the 320 rotation ones

 

[Schatznut]

The location of the fork on the suspension spring makes a tremendous difference in the rotational amplitude of the pendulum. According to Joseph Rabushka, moving the fork down the spring decreases the amplitude but increases the supplementary arc as a percentage of the total rotation, up until the point where the clock starts to flutter. Moving it up the spring increases the amplitude but decreases the supplementary arc as a percentage of the total rotation until there's little margin and the clock won't run unless it is nearly completely wound.

I tried an experiment with a full-size Konrad Mauch clock - I lowered the fork repeatedly, and got it so far down that the pendulum was turning about 120 degrees. It ran just fine but it would flutter at the slightest provocation. Then I raised the fork repeatedly, until the pendulum was turning 400-420 degrees, but it would only run for a couple of weeks after being fully wound. I've got it set so that it turns 360 degrees, plus or minus a few, of course, and it runs a full year between windings.